Letters to the Editor
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A view from the north...
It is sad to see the American experiment fail so miserably after just a few hundred years...
As with most political systems that start with a good plan, your Founding Fathers failed to account for the weakest link : human nature. Despite their efforts, I guess they just couldn't imagine how bad things would turn out (who could have?).
Still, I'm surprised at the general apathy of the people; where are the street protests, the political opposition (I'm not talking about the Democrats here, obviously Democrat is now a synonym for Republican)?
I've been following all these events from my not-so-remote vantage point in Montreal/Canada, and it's hard to believe all of this is happening. This would make for a very bad - and not very credible - novel... yet it IS happening.
What can I say? Condolences?
Stephane in Montreal
(sorry if some sentences are strange - blame it on my french)
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A serious answer...
This is a serious question
Are there any good arguments for the immunity provisions? Does anyone know of anyone capable of making these arguments with any type of coherence and logic?
I am not joking, I really would like to see this.
So far as I can tell, the best argument for these provisions seems to be that "If we don't protect them this time, the next time we have a program of questionable legality, they might be less helpful."
That is the argument for which 60 senators are willing to sell out the rule of law? Really?
Considering that there has always been a way, legally, to get what they wanted AND a way to compel the telecom companies to comply with requests, the main reason that Bush is pushing this is seems to be to shield his administration from tedious lawsuits and from the truth about what they've been up to from the beginning of this charade.
There are 2 ways to get what you want from behind the glass at a store: 1) smash the glass and take it, or 2) solicit the assistance of the sales person to ask for it. I guess it's always quicker to just smash the glass and take it but then you have broken the law and created a mess. This 'legislation' is the Bush Junta's attempt at recovery from their smashing the glass and making a hell of a mess in the process... Just rewrite the law is such a cliche to despotic regimes that it ought to be below the 'worlds superpower'. But not apparently to the power drunk usurpers of the throne.
And just think how much Bin Laden could have accomplished on his own...
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Whitehouse amendment 3920 on compliance reviews passed on voice vote
This is not one of the "poison pill" amendments Bush would veto. Now they move on to Feinstein's 3910 exclusivity amendment. It's not clear from Emptywheel's analysis from a couple of days ago if this would merit a veto. 60 votes are required for this to pass, so it is likely to fail miserably.
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Dodd
Who knows what lurks in the hearts of men? I can't second guess Dodd's decision, so I won't try. Cboldt has convinced me that the circumstances were/are such that Dodd had very few options. The forces of the Senate were arrayed against his success. I would note in Dodd's defense a couple of things:
1. He did take up the issue when no one else with the size megaphone he had would do so.
2. He did manage to wrestle the issue to the ground once.
3. He was insulted/chided for taking up the issue by his colleagues as a campaign stunt. Crooks and Liars did report that he was expected to drop the issue once his presidential campaign ended, and iirc there were rumblings of vague threats by his caucus.
4. He stood and delivered an oratory to an empty senate chamber that will go into the congressional record, which his colleagues were either too jaded, too ashamed, or too lazy to hear.
5. In the absence of a miracle, this odious legislation will pass, clearly indicating that Dodd, Feingold, and 'us' are insufficient in the face of a unitary executive bent on having its own way, and a complicit congress determined to deliver it.
6. While it's nice to have someone to pin our disappointment on, I am unwilling to reinforce what surely Dodd's colleagues are telling him. That the voters are a fickle and disloyal bunch whose support is fleeting.
And, curse10 makes a fair point, we elected these folks. No, I'm not talking about the 2000 election; I'm talking about every election that has occurred since 2000. Salazar is mine, and I'll wear him like an albatross until his next term. We will not correct our situation even over the next five elections. Sorry, Mona, 2006 was obviously not enough. There are no magic pills, and no magic elections. There is only much hard work ahead.
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Standards
9/11 Commission Co-Chair Lee H. Hamilton: "Unless Congress provides immunity, the clear message will be that private citizens should help only when they are certain that all the government's actions are legal. Given today's threats, that is too high a standard."
Are you fucking kidding me?
"...THAT IS TOO HIGH A STANDARD..."?!?!?!?!?!?!
Jeebus ... What the fuck happened to "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself..."?
I personally would feel a lot more secure knowing that EVERYONE would only help the government when they were certain that the actions were legal.
I can understand that there may conceivably be isolcated situations in which the government, or its agents, in hot pursuit of some national security epidemic or situation, might need to skirt the bounds of legality. BUT THIS PROGRAM WAS GOING ON FOR YEARS. THIS IS NOT A DRAMATIC SITUATION. THIS IS POLICY, GOD DAMMIT.
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@RyanHartman
Spot on. Very well said. Thanks
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Thanks
Oh, and thanks for the responses sysprog, Pinky
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To Stephane in Montreal.
It will spread north. Just give it time...
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Wow!! Obama is there!
He just voted yes on the Feinstein amendment.
Liebertard is there today and voting with the trogloydytes.
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Quite the opposite...
Founding Fathers failed to account for the weakest link : human nature
On the contrary the Founding Fathers were fully aware of human nature. That's why they put all those important guarantees in the Constitution in the first place. The resulting document might not have been durable enough to survive the Global war on TERROR!!!!!! but it won't be for lack of effort.