I'm sure Holly McC is right. The end result in this and other matters is what counts.

But...what is the deal with Senator Harry Reid? He has been running the Senate as if he and the Democrats are the minority in the Senate. He seems to think that the Republicans are the majority. He gets stabbed in the back by the Republicans at every turn. His response to that is to stab his Democratic base in the back at every turn. In this case he has gone out of his way to give Bush/cheney and the Republicans every thing they wanted. So, guess what, minority leader McConnell stabbed Harry in the back anyway. Again.

That is where it stands as of now. So Harry is acting like he's finally all PO'd and surprised that they could be so cruel and unreasonable. I don't know how he'll go about messing this one up and making sure that he gets stabbed in the back once more, and making sure that we do too. Maybe, miracle of miracles, he has learned something and will come out smelling more like a rose and less like manure this time.

Fineman, in Florida covering the presidential campaigns, said the fight over FISA/telecom is the only issue on which the Republicans can try to paint the Democrats as weak on national security in the 2008 election.

Fineman is completely clueless, of course. The Rethuglicans can and will paint the Democrats weak on nash'nul securitah any chance they get, on whatever issue they want, no matter what the Democrats do. They don't need facts; they make them up ... and Fineman's M$M gladly parrots them and doesn't expose them for what they are.

Cheers,

The Republicans have helped Reid by moving to vote on the bill his president wants... that shouldn't make him mad. The posturing on his part is a ruse so progressive dems will not expect his next step - which is to cross the aisle with the turncoat dems and support the move to vote, crushing any filibuster and passing the legislation. Go ahead and ridicule me, but that is what's going to happen.

My accountant was venting yesterday about where things are heading. He's not convinced to anywhere good.

He has 'many' corporations as clients and 'many' of those corporations are hitting him with 'outrageous' requests for him to 'cook' their books.

He had one 'large corporation' in our area tell him that if he didn't 'cook their books' they way that they demanded, they would take their accounting business elsewhere.

He said that It's never been this bad and wondered out loud 'how long it will take for another Enron to happen'.

This country and those that govern it are hastening the decline into the abyss of third (turd) world status. Evidently Bush and his cronies have been studying communist China and the 'old USSR' and by giving business (and the CofC) what they want, they can ride the crest of the bribes and hush money to a fat and leisurely retirement.

The same is no doubt true for Rockefeller and all who have accepted money from the telecoms. To have the Bush administration taken to court for illegalities in spying on citizens would open a titanic floodgate that could sink the GOP and America. But this cancer, left unaddressed, WILL consume the country and all who live or deal with it. And less people will walk away with hidden bags of ill gotten ca$h...

And what the hell, Bush and Cheney and Rockefeller and all the rest will be dead soon enough so what do they care if they squeeze and extort more cash to make their remaining days happy and very plush...

That is why I think it's smart to vote for the youngest rather than the oldest person running for president. At least their money grabs will be easier to catch, I hope... They would also have more time to spend in jail (HAH!) for ripping us off...

Your understanding of Edwards' rights in the Senate matches mine. I think also that unanimous consent must be granted to allow access to the Senate floor for outside visitors (possibly including former Senators, but I'm not sure here).

If someone who has quick and easy access could check yesterday's transcript, I'm pretty sure McConnell asked for consent for access rights for a few people at the beginning of one of his speeches. I think might be interesting to see just whom he was getting onto the floor, but I'm limited for time today and probably won't be able to run it down.

I've made a lot of progress documenting stated arguments in favor of Telecom immunity and counterarguments. Please take a look:

http://fisa.wikispot.org/Telecom_Immunity_Arguments

feel free to make suggestions on readability (or make edits directly yourself). No registration required to edit.

Purpose of this page is to have a (relatively) concise location for just the arguments to share with friends and family. I actually think media and Senate staff could benefit too, many of whom seem to think the issue is too complicated to digest.

My comments about Bush, Cheney and Rockefeller, et all, not living long was aimed at their ages. Not some threat against them per se.

Mother nature and if there is a 'god' will deal with them...

Damned that Duracell bunny!

Can you visualize the image these candidates could offer the American people by presenting a solid and united front on this single issue?

In one fell swoop (I've been trying to get that phrase into a post for months), they could put to rest all the nasty slicing and dicing the MSM has been promoting for the past several days and let the American electorate know that the Democrats are offering them a serious alternative to the way business has been conducted in Washington for the past decade.

Imagine....Clinton, Obama, and Edwards all standing in the well of the Senate and standing against the continuing parade of lawlessness which has been allowed to continue for far too long. Even better would be a joint Communiqué from all three candidates which in easily understandable terms explains their position on this issue and issue the Communiqué immediately prior to the State of the Union address.