If I pick up any phone and call an 800 number, the owner of the 800 number has the right to take the number I called from and connect it with a name and address and mail me marketing items. This is perfectly legal and does not violate my rights. If I choose to pay to be on a telephone network, they have the right to analyze my calling data however they see fit, that is part of their business. If I choose to use their network, that's my decision and I accept these things as part of the deal. If I don't like it, I don't have to be on a telephone network. I don't have to use the infrastructure that is provided by others and exists to make my life more convenient if I don't want to. I am not gauranteed life, liberty, and secure phone records. I might expect this type of reaction if they were listening in or recording conversations, but Analyzing Call Data? What am I supposed to be frightened of, I'm going to get a visit from the FBI for calling grammy twice a week?

If the telcos DON'T get retroactive immunity how much money will it cost them? What are they willing to do and how much are they willing to spend to ensure it happens?

Put yourself in the shoes of the telco lobbyists. (Painful I know, but try it.)

What is their message to the senators?

I'm thinking something like, "Ignore these bloggers, they don't understand the issues." or more blatant, "How much money have bloggers historically given you? Do you really want to side with them? How many jobs do they create in your state? All our telco employees are taxpayers too and if we had to lay people off in your state because of a massive law suit..."

Put yourself in the shoes of the telco CFOs.

If they don't get retroactive immunity, does that mean that key people will be tied up with criminal proceedings for years? Will civil lawsuits impact the profit of the company? By how much?

Is the money the telcos are willing to spend on lobbyists and PR to get retroactive immunity an indication of how serious they are and how much they want this?

Do you think that the financial analysts who follow these stocks would be interested in this? If not, why not? Is it because it is not big enough of an impact on the companies?

To move this discussion into the financial space will give the media an excuse to do a different kind of story. This story is about the law and spying, but it's also about the money.

You say Harry Reid is demonstrating that it is no longer government "for the people", but you must understand the main point. Corporations are people, too!

So the next question is, why aren't you people torching ATT kiosks for doing the same thing you're freaking out about here? Heh.

We ARE up in arms over ATT's illegal spying. We WANT them to go bankrupt because of HUGE settlement costs in their massive spying operation in violation of the law.

Many of us eschew ATT completely and choose superior companies that do NOT spy on its customers, and certainly not for the government. I would rather go without telephone service than be screwed by ATT and the other criminal telcos in on the illegal spying deal.

The whole point of NO IMMUNITY is to see to it that ALL those who violated the law (Bush, Cheney, the CIA, the FBI, ATT, etc) ALL face punishment in court. ATT is just the first idiot inside the door we seek to kick down.

So the next question is, why aren't you people torching ATT kiosks for doing the same thing you're freaking out about here?

Actually, in case you haven't noticed, one of our favorite organizations around here, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, is in the middle of a very juicy lawsuit against AT&T over another of the very issues we are discussing today. So yes, we are indeed going after AT&T, but in a more significant way than burning phone booths.

For more information on what you refer to here, ondelette has posted several times on the damage the government can inflict through its linkage analysis.

This is just another example of how far your head is up your ass.

And before you reply to that, you should know that I had a colonoscopy this morning. I have photographic proof that as of 9 am this morning, there was not a head up my butt. Further, since I weighed myself before starting the "prep" process yesterday morning, I can state with some degree of confidence that as of yesterday morning, I was no more than 2.3% shit by weight. What do you have in your defense? Heh.

(The good news is the procedure was needed only because of family history and gave good enough results that I don't have to do it again for 8 years.)

that happens all the time.

Shooter, the last time this topic came up you did a very good job of demonstrating that you don’t really understand what ‘rule of law’ means. So good, in fact, that you don’t really need to do it again, but you’re off to a good start. I know you can’t understand why people here don’t just want to melt into the warm fuzzy arms of Big G like you do, but some of us don’t understand why you are so frightened. Takes all kinds.

Keep up the good work. Heh. Tsk. Keep digging. Mmm. Hmmm. Ohhhh. Ahhhh. Hrmphh. Bah.

How dare these guys not be so scared of terrorists to give Big Government Inc. its Get Out of Jail Free Card and let it spy on us for our own protection. Do these Mavericks not understand that our entire civilization is at stake? I mean, we are having our PRIMARIES here! There are WOMEN voting in them, women who MAY be wearing short skirts! I bet the terrorists are frothing at the mouth because they are so fucking pissed right now about this, about 15-20% of the population voting in an obfuscated and insecure election process. They Hate Us for Our Freedoms and Super Tuesday is coming! :O

I bet this all comes down to Reid being pro-life, and the Democrats should have seen this coming because being pro-life means he is evil or something. A pro-life Mormon Crypto-Republican. Harry Reid and Joe Lieberman probably go to Bohemian Grove together and badmouth Abraham Lincoln to all of their buddies.