Democrats want to spy on people just as much as Republicans do. Let's not mitigate their guilt by painting them as the weak ones being overpowered by outside forces. If this FISA spying-free-for-all bill passes, it will be at the will of those who vote for it.

Remember, if you don't have any terrorists hiding in your closet, you having nothing to fear when the government searches your closet 10,000 times per day.

USA = Under Surveillance Always

I'm mystified as to what prevents Democrats (and reasonable Republicans) from proposing the following formula regards telecom immunity:

1. Telecoms admit, in public and private hearings, under oath, the exact context of their activities with respect to the Bush Administration and warrantless wiretapping.

2. Congress passes any law(s) required to address any issues revealed by Step 1.

3. Congress then acts based on what happened in Step 1: immunity for telecoms and others that tell the truth. Prosecution for the liars.

Telecoms are not at financial risk from adverse court decisions until any appeals are exhausted. That's at least a year from now, maybe more. And Congress, acting on behalf of citizens and the Constitution, needs to know exactly what happened and make any changes. At the same time, the judicial branch needs to clearly rule on any and all issues that stem from what has happened since before 9/11, to set legal precedents for the future.

I'd also add that this approach should be taken with all Bush Administration activities with Step 1 being performed by some sort of special truth and reconciliation committee looking into vote suppression in 2000/2002/2004, black sites, torture, and so on. But the formula is so simple and easy to apply just to spying: compel people to tell the truth, fix things that are broken, then grant immunity if/as needed.

And immunity can be in different forms. It might be a cap on any punitive damages above a certain number. But giving a "get out of jail free" card, as people are currently proposing, or not doing anything, seem like worse options.

Am I crazy? This seems like a reasonable compromise.

Time for a new party - call it The Progressive Party. Take the few Dems who have any shred of spine left and recruit a couple of the GOP who seem to have at least some sense of decency and move forward!

The whole argument over appearing "SOFT" on Terrorism is so incomprehensible. One does not protect us from terrorists by taking away our rights and liberties... one only propagates the lies of the storyline we've been force fed these last many years.

is that the Bushies stopped paying the bill.

Glenn,

I'm guessing you, Firedoglake and others have been putting heads together on a plan of attack for saving our 4th Amendment rights in the upcoming FISA Update battle.

Can I assume you'll be posting on The Plan in the very near future?

While Harry Reid seems to want to stealthly slide the SIC's version past his slumbering Democratic majority, I'm still holding out hope that the Democratic firebrands in the House can hold the line, and particularly in any Conference committee.

Waiting with rings on fingers and bells on toes!

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/ACLU_poll_Majority_opposes_telecom_immunity_0122.html

or

http://tinyurl.com/39obbp

Tough to get in this place, lately. New doorman?

Your proposal is reasonable unless you are AT&T Chairman and CEO David Dorman, but we wouldn't know that from your anonymous signature.

Is anyone else having problems with Salon today? I have a pretty fast connection, but today it feels like dial-up.

aside from whine, that is. mike gravel's 'initiative for democracy' would cure the problem, if you and a few million others got behind it.

or would you prefer to make a living out of whining "somebuddy odda do sompin?"

a people with the power to vote can have a society as good as they wish. if the government is corrupt and venal, don't blame the pollies who are as blameless as flies on a carcass- blame yourselves for being too ignorant, lazy, and crooked to clean washington up.

I must have been channeling you, Glenn. Last evening, I noticed that all three candidates (especially Hillary) referenced problems that "are waiting for the next president".

No they aren't. They are extant problems of crisis proportions.

Clinton and Obama should be back in the Senate, and Edwards should be making appearances there, as well. The two current senators should at least be doing their jobs as Senators instead of waxing poetic about daydreams of occupying the Oval Office.

Leadership does not require an official position - elected or appointed. It requires courgage, smarts, ethics and integrity.

I wrote to the Edwards campaign imploring Edwards to take on Dodd's Constitutional restoration agenda and platform and make it his. I implored him to take action exhibiting leadership now - not next January.

The Congress is failing its role in its entirety. We have no time to wait until we can exercise our vote to remove those who have not upheld their oath of office - to support and to defend the Constitution. Instead, we get actions by our so-called Democratic leaders which reflect adherence and loyalty to Bush instead of accountability to we the people.

Well today the world is also feeling the sting under the Bush/Cheney dictatorship. I wonder how docile the world will be? And when its act, in what form will that be? Military action on our soil? Calling in loans and making the US a servant state? Assassinations? Energy embargos? UN sanctions?

We can only keep writing, telephoning, educating, coaching and imploring our elected officials to do the will of we the people.

telecoms have in some cases refused to help the U.S. intelligence community further--Calabresi

Does anyone know of any basis whatsoever for that rather significant, pro-immunity talking point that made its way into this article?--Glenn

The only thing I have seen on this is the widely reported recent story where some wiretaps were discontinued....due to failure of the Feds to pay the bill: http://tinyurl.com/2mpdne

"It seems the telecoms, who are claiming they were just being 'good patriots' when they allowed the government to spy on us without warrants, are more than willing to pull the plug on national security investigations when the government falls behind on its bills," said former FBI agent Michael German, the ACLU's national security policy counsel. "To put it bluntly, it sounds as though the telecoms believe it when the FBI says the warrant is in the mail but not when they say the check is in the mail."