Letters to the Editor
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@Glenn - the two points you make
It's impossible to resolve all of the conflicting details of each side's self-serving version
It always is.
Needless to say, as Cernig documents, Bush followers, who believe it's the duty of every American to click one's heels and blindly accept every statement made by our Government and military...
Nor is it wise to "click one's heels and blindly accept" any statement made by any Government and military in a confrontational stance and high state of readiness with another government's military. Everyone's nerves are on edge and the adrenalin is surging. Fight or flight response.
It's not about the defense of any statement from my perspective. Those kids out there, on both sides, get blown up every day. Like I said, the issue being missed in all of this is that no one got blown up that day. That's a good thing.
The whole thing about the accents is one of the silliest things I think I've read so far. Lord Haw Haw didn't sound like Col. Klink or Sargent Schulz and the NVA soldiers who managed to do this, probably with a Soviet advisor's help:
During the war, North Vietnamese intelligence units sometimes succeeded in penetrating US communications systems, and they could monitor American message traffic from within, according to the report "Spartans in Darkness."
On several occasions "the communists were able, by communicating on Allied radio nets, to call in Allied artillery or air strikes on American units," it said.
"That's something I have never heard before," Steven Aftergood, director of the FAS project on government secrecy, told AFP...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080108/pl_afp/usvietnamintelligence512
Probably didn't sound like Boris Karloff, either. The one point I wish more people would focus on is that no one got fragged up.
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Fraud, military leaders and politics
“wouldn't they do a much better job at it? I think the US can find atleast ONE authentic Persian to read from a script. If they wanted to fake this, they could have made it nearly flawless. Obviously there is much more to this than anyone here knows, but to imply we faked this is ridiculous. If we REALLY WANTED to go to war with Iran, we would have faked something and did it already.
-- kufir77
I conceded yesterday in a lengthy discussion with LWM that the Guard boats did represent a significant threat and that the Navy Captains in charge of our ships acted very professionally.
Kufirr77: I don’t see how our Navy would dare be involved in a fraud because there are too many sailors to expect all of them would keep the secret. In time, the truth would leak out. But I wonder how often this buzzing of our ships happened before this. Could this have been the first and only time? If it has been happening more frequently, then the Busheviks would have been prepared to use it to help Bush on his trip and provide more ammo for an air attack on Iran. If not, they would jump on it for the same reasons.
“It pains me to see our military issuing false claims because it futher damages the credibilty of our country and is the type of behavior which, historically, has led to great destruction. It's an extremely simple point and I honestly can't fathom the dysfunction necessary to impede someone's understanding of it.”
-- GlennGreenwald
Whether it is false claims or exaggeration of an incident, it sure looks like it has politics smeared all over it. You can see how the admiral asked to talk to the media about it was very careful in his choice of words. To me, the admirals’ marching orders went at least as high as Gates and likely much higher. I agree with Glenn that it does serious damage to our military’s image when they are politically used; however, if you were in the admiral’s shoes, I don’t see where he had much choice. Nor did the admirals in charge of CENTCOM and the JCS.
When the military is politicized by civilian leadership as it has been by the Busheviks, and as it was under Nixon, the military leadership is under considerable duress. We owe those who serve us for nonpolitical reasons, civilian leadership that does not force them into the political side, especially when there are those like Gen. Petraeus, who are eager to take advantage of residing there.
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LWM
Nor is it wise to "click one's heels and blindly accept" any statement made by any Government and military in a confrontational stance and high state of readiness with another government's military. Everyone's nerves are on edge and the adrenalin is surging. Fight or flight response.
Who's doing that, and where? Be specific.
It's not about the defense of any statement from my perspective. Those kids out there, on both sides, get blown up every day. Like I said, the issue being missed in all of this is that no one got blown up that day. That's a good thing.
What does this remotely have to do with the fact that the U.S. Government issued highly dubious, if not outright false, claims about what occurred here?
I've never seen a comment thread filled with so many nonsequtiors.
It's like pointing out that the Bush administration's pre-war claims about WMD and Saddam's links to Al Qaeda were false, and having someone, in response, talk about rape rooms.
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Anonymous @ 3:38
And before you post again, please go back and read the article again, maybe twice. I think your reading comprehension is a bit weak. Might not hurt to take a second look at some of the comments, also. You might be surprised at what you are missing.
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Yay Glenn!
One issue not raised was the timing of this so-called "incident.
GW was on his way to Israel to shore up unity against Iran by other Arab nations and to get Israel and Palestine to some sort of agreement about borders.
Could this have been just a ruse to make Israel think that GW has their back and can be the "Big brother"-so-to-speak?
Secondly, Iran just had a summit with many of its' neighbors back in late Oct.
Because the Caspian area is fairly young-since the breakup of Russia and the Balks., they've only recently figured out how to figure out borders between them(which includes the Caspian Sea)and international waters (boundaries Hormuz).
Since this was just done in late Oct./Nov, how is the US supposed to just go into that area-and know the borders (waters)-when they've just figured it themselves?
If anything we've probably been violating, "a la Cheney" any efforts at respecting such offshore boundaries-not to mention, clogging up shipping lanes there.
Good article GG.