I cop to a similar apocalyptic stance as your interlocutors, but based more on aesthetics and emotion than any rigorous historical analysis. It seems to me that hegemons fall, sooner or later... and that when they do, it seems to be as a result of internal rot and decay rather than an attack from without.

I do see the breakup of a continental nation as an ultimate good, though one likely to be attended with much suffering. A number of smaller, chastened, UK-like countries would be a fine outcome indeed.

Thanks for all the hard work you put into that excellent compilation of statements by the intelligence committee members.

from here to eternity.

My oh my how things change.

Now, as the real illegal wiretapping story comes to light, the Telecoms have found it necessary to call in their Congressional chits. Reid, et al, know that depositions given by the Telecoms would include formal evidence of their complicity [in the post-911 environment], and they know that by offering immunity to the Telecoms this complicity would probably never be exposed (or perhaps exposed after several decades through the Freedom of Information Act).

There may be some truth to this very insightful hypothesis.

I think it's easy to underestimate just how delirious and taken with the Bush Administration much of the Congress (and the public, for that matter) were immediately after 911.

Combine that with the craven, but widespread, attribute of selfish pride in our politicians, and you have a potent recipe for institutional refusal to learn from its worst lapses of judgment.

Nice comment, Anonymous p. 19.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_HZk46GiXY

"We want to set people on fire."

"I want to see laws change."

I CAN HAZ APOCLYSPE?

Matt Browner-Hamlin has compiled a list of blog post endorsements of Dodd for president... not majority leader.

Totoro, and others, you might want to peruse them to see if any of them would appeal to your email lists.

http://chrisdodd.com/blog/blogger-endorsement-list

Hell, fire and brimstone. Are you trying to drive me away for the night or did you want to remind why we have to win this fight no matter how hard or how long it takes?

Yes, go to this interview with Satyajit Das, but be sure your stomach is settled before you do:

http://www.thestree.com/newsanalysis/investing/10380618.html

I work for a major Democratic consulting firm and in my job I come into contact with many of the party's leading consultants on a regular basis. All too many of them -- especially the more influential ones -- are pussies who would much rather bash a Democrat whom they can portray as not a middle-of-the-roader than take a chance on bashing a Republican.

Back when Howard Dean was making his fateful run, I thought many of those consultants would take some pride in the ballsy success Dean was having, sticking it to the Republicans on important issues, telling it like it really was. Instead, much to my surprise, they positively hated Howard Dean. They really felt threatened by a Democrat who was willing to stand up to the Republicans. After all, tough Democrats like Dean create a risk that they will be exposed as the pussies who had advised the Democrats that they had to to pussy out in the first place.

If ya's gotta go ya's gotta go!

The teeth begin to float if ya's don't leak off a porch.

I heard Harry Reid on the "News Hour" and need to go wee-wee.

If ya's hold the blabber within ya's accumulate a ugly spleen.

I need to not be a jabber or the neocons will discombobulate me?

If ya's gotta listen to Brooks/Shields, be prepared to oink and

squeal!

jibber!

I was watching the NewsHour, too.

Obsequious is the word that comes to mind when I think of Reid's performance there. Not just because of what he said, but even more because of the way he said it.

Shields & Brooks? Not a single question about or reference to the FISA controversy. How disappointing!

@bop: You wouldn't believe what I just came back from doing...

@RMP: not trying to be overly literal, but what does it mean to you to "win" in this context? Genuinely asking here. I mean, even though I feel like the Balkans taught us -if nothing else- that partition doesn't work... I'd sure like these people to have their own country and leave me alone. I don't want to "convert" them. I don't want to disenfranchise them. I just want God to bless and keep them, far from me.

Don't take offense. I did not say I have anything against Ivy League inbreds personally, I just don't like being managed by them. If you take a deep breath and re-read my comment you will find that my in depth 3 point analysis was in addition to what Krugman had already said. Also your aggressive approach is not very impressive. It lacks wit and self-esteem.

Thanks for the link... although, I'm not sure it took me where you intended it to. A Google search on Satyajit Das kicked up all kinds of interesting stuff, and a number of interviews which I listened to but, apparently, I didn't find the one you referenced. I'm particularly curious about this data point:

$485 trillion Collateralized Debt Obligations (CDOs) outstanding.

This is the one I'd like to verify. Thanks.

The only win regarding Iraq was decided before the invasion. There is no win for us no matter how it comes out. We have already lost and the only undecided aspect is how much we have lost and how much we can recover from this tragic war.

The win is by the Shi’a who now control Iraq and will for a long time. Of course, al-Qaeda has won a lot with gaining so many recruits and proof of how bad our nation and its leaders are for their followers and potential recruits.

Any chance for a secular Iraq is also gone. Joe Biden’s partition is past the point that it could be a solution because Iraq is already partitioned so the Shi’a government wouldn’t want to accept any formal partition and our government is in no shape to force a partition.

The more troops we can pull out and the faster we can do it would save a lot of budget money that is badly needed for other purposes. However the military will suck up that money to rebuild their forces and arms and also put more forces into Afghanistan.

The best we can hope for is a Democratic leader who really will first use the economic and political arms of foreign relations and never resort to any new overseas military interventions without the full support from the rest of the world and hopefully only for humanitarian reasons.

Of course, the biggest losers are the Iraqi people who will continue to pay for our invasion for decades. I’m sure an awful lot of people wished that we would have left their country alone. That was my opinion when junior's daddy decided to not go on to Baghdad. But of course I was worried about the human cost of war, not oil and domination.