There is exactly one revelation here, data mining is being used in the "war on drugs". Everything else is old news. Big whoop.

Just wait until a NSS Democrat is in the WH. You'll let out a "big whoop". The Soviet went after books. We go after drugs, but at one time it was the HUAC. If America shifted from a right wing alignment to a left wing one, you could find yourself testifying under oath before a congressional committee.

"Are you now or have you ever been a member of the _________ party?"

"It can't happen here.", you say?

Head out to the driving range. Don't worry about it. Big Whoop.

Surely America's right wingers and liberal hawks understand that once one government agency undertakes uncontrolled surveillance, then *all* government agencies have done so -- because they will share the information.

So I'm wondering if ordinary, grassroots conservatives, whom we hear are perfectly comfortable with warrantless wiretapping, are okay with the idea that the IRS can listen in to their phone calls and e-mails?

Or if they just never thought of this, and only operate off a minds-eye image of Jack Bauer, the FBI, and skeery brown Al-Kider types?

Outstanding question.

I ask Salon readers and kindred souls, in all sincerety, what are we to do?

Something or other to do with "our sacred honor".

IMO, of course.

what to do? don't despair. don't isolate yourself. nurture your friendships. remember that resistance starts at home. usually in the kitchen. give your support where you can and don't spread yourself too thin. i think some of glenn's most effective work has been when he has targeted one issue, e.g. joe klein's column of bullshit. keith olbermann has a bit now where he's recapping the bush scandals because there are so many that it's easy to forget them all.

what to do? have faith that there are more americans who believe in freedom and in a nation of laws then there are right wing authoritarians who would prefer order at the expense of liberty. organize and look for representatives, democrat or republican or third party, especially third party! who believe and practice good governance the way you understand it. don't settle for the lesser of two evils.

what to do? realize that it is people like shooter and joe klein, those who rationalize the status quo as acceptable and afraid to move forward that are the biggest obstacles to change. realize that at their core, they are scared of a world they don't understand and overwhelmed by the complexities of modern day life. it isn't the zealot or the fundamentalist yelling from a soapbox that's the problem. it's the uncritical and intellectually lazy who tacitly or explicitly support them.

what to do? take the long view and realize that sorting things out is going to take a long time and it's only going to get more difficult. that dream of an american century? give it up.

So I'm wondering if ordinary, grassroots conservatives, whom we hear are perfectly comfortable with warrantless wiretapping, are okay with the idea that the IRS can listen in to their phone calls and e-mails?

Or if they just never thought of this, and only operate off a minds-eye image of Jack Bauer, the FBI, and skeery brown Al-Kider types?

-- El Cid

It's all part of the plan! Novus Ordo Seclorum!

*WHY* does the -you know- liberal (*ptui*) media concentrate on the gossipy inconsequentialities, while aconstitutional horrors are perpetrated -often with dem'rats collusion- on a weekly basis ? ? ?

here, allow me to take a stab at that:

could it be that our korporate puppetmasters have so corrupted the system, are so greedy in their overreaching, so manic in their lust for authoritarian/complete control, so absolutely scornful of 90% of us, so fearful of the sheeple looking up, that they will brook NO discussions which run counter to their agenda ? ? ?

ya'think...

The System (tm) is 'broke' (purposefully)...

The They (tm) are not willingly stepping down...

all but a handful of powerless kongresskritters are complicit...

the judiciary has been nearly completely coopted at ALL levels...

the media is bought and paid for...

the playa's are angling for their seat in the bunker...

and the stupid, scared sheeple are still chewing their soma cuds...

...but we can probably 'fix it' with a couple weally keen pwogwessive candidates, some more sternly worded emails to kongresskritters (and weally, Weally mean it this time!), and maybe i'll put that 'impeach nixon' button on, too ! ! !

*snort*

or, maybe we have to TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY by any means necessary...

heh mukasey: if YOU and your kreepy, neo (nazi) con (artiste) fiends are the 'good guys', then sign me up for the 'bad guys' list, asshole...

come the revolution, gummint will be made transparent...

art guerrilla

aka ann archy

eof

This is the future NOW.

Learn to love it, or do something about it...

http://www.crooksandliars.com/Media/Download/24270/2/abrams_civil_rights_121007.mov

http://www.crooksandliars.com/Media/Download/24291/2/abrams_signing_statements_121107.mov

http://www.crooksandliars.com/Media/Download/24343/2/abrams_blj_prosecutions_121207.mov

http://www.crooksandliars.com/Media/Download/24374/2/abrams_blj_siegelman_121307.mov

Let's take the twisted logic of the VP and his 1% doctrine of certainty and apply it to any organization that might fund terrorism and one can see where we are right now. Think about it if there is even the slightest chance that say some individual or organization, even 6 steps removed, had the effect of funding terrorism then why bother with the notion of reasonable or probable cause. Isn't that what this is all about? Tie that in with the famous John Mitchell quote " If you're not breaking the law then you have nothing to worry about" and it sure looks like a great cover for the administration to me. I'm sure they would agree that is logical to them and reasonable. Meanwhile all the convictions that the Justice dept. garnered by these surveillance techniques are used as a success model.Of course they would never abuse those powers and those asking for oversight are just willing to let the next 911 attack happen, right? We are ruled by some very sick people right now.