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Sunday, December 16, 2007 12:00 AM

The Lawless Surveillance State

The latest revelations of illegal domestic spying highlight what has become increasingly clear about the nature of our government.

The letters thread is now closed.

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Sunday, December 16, 2007 05:33 PM

syQodem at 5:16

Though you (accurately) paint a bleak picture, I am heartened by the analysis of your students, who already radiate the beams of light that give us all hope. Clearly they have a supremely effective and inspirational teacher.

Sunday, December 16, 2007 05:23 PM

Jordan Orlando

You're wasting your time because shooter242 does not understand the underlying concept.

Not so. And shooter242 does understand the concept. He's just being evasive again. But neither facts nor reason are on his side, and neocon equivocation has definite limits. Watch him squirm.

Notice that he avoided the simple questions I posed to him. He can't even acknowledge those questions, much less answer them, because any answer he could give would be a very obvious lie, and he has no credibility as it is.

Which only goes to show that shooter242, like all bullies, particularly neocon chickenhawk bullies, is, at bottom, a sniveling coward. If the American people were to truly stand up to these criminals you'd see them bolting for South America, just like the Nazis, and for the same reasons.

He's dug himself into a hole and just won't stop digging, so amuse yourself: hand him a bigger shovel. He'll use it.

Sunday, December 16, 2007 05:18 PM

By their actions...

... one should always point out that given powers over judicial appointments, what did bushco do? they appointed repugs to prosecute political oppponents, many times with no case what so ever, based only on the "let 'em deny it" metric. so we are to believe these powers of surveillance will only be used for good, against the "terrists". whew, we be dumb...

it has occurred to me since the comey/ashcroft revelations about the hospital visit by card et al, that maybe what they found so egerious was bush/rove spying on the kerry campaign, using "terrists" as a cover...

Sunday, December 16, 2007 05:16 PM

Thank You Chris Dodd!

I was in San Diego for the Democratic Convention and listened to all of the candidates make their presentations from the podium: Barack the Rock Star, Clinton the inevitable next president, Biden the master of lexicological foot-in-mouth disease. I have to say, Dodd was rather lackluster, but non the less, one could not doubt his passion and sincerity. But that was show-biz; this is reality.

I teach Principals of American Democracy- PAD to my cohort teachers, Government to my students- in Orange County, CA and we have been discussing all of this over the last several weeks- actually, since school started in September. All of the discussion has been, "Why is Congress not standing up for the rights for which American citizens have put them in office?" Even though I teach in one of the most conservative counties in America, no one can believe the Orwellian feel of our nation- and yes, that is their word, not mine. Required reading in their senior year is "1984"; it has proven to be timely and precient.

Shame is quickly changing to anger at Harry Reid. How can he possibly justify bringing a Cheney-drafted bill to the floor over one without the Administration's perverted stamp on it? How can he possibly justify allowing Republican Lindsey Graham's hold on a bill to stand, while dismissing Dodd's? How can he have said he does not like the amnesty to telecoms, and yet allow the bill with amnesty to move forward?

Where are Hilary, Biden, and Barack right now? What is the value of their promise? Have they returned to Washington to help Dodd in his filibuster? Where is the leadership they must have- and use- if they wish to become President?

10, 20, 50, 100 years from now, history will record this epoch as the Dark Age of American democracy. I feel that we will not emerge from it even after next November.

Sunday, December 16, 2007 05:08 PM

What Blue Meme Said

I can't read 28 pages of letters so I picked page 12 at random and found a comment from Blue Meme that was so profound it bears reprinting. Thanks Blue Meme.

If a tree speaks in the forest....

As usual, dead-on and depressing. But the most striking thing about the sorry place we have reached is only implied in your post.

You write:

This doesn't mean there is a complete erosion of freedom equal to all of those societies. Free speech still basically thrives; we elect our leaders; and individuals retain a fair amount of autonomy in their personal choices.

In the bogeyman totalitarian states of yore, the kind of wholesale dismantling of the rule of law that took place would have been impossible absent the muzzling of the intelligentsia. Stalin and Hitler and Mao had to jail or threaten to jail folks like you in order to bully everyone into obedience.

I would argue that we are now in a far more dangerous place: they don't have to threaten any of us, because hoi polloi are so opiated by Britney's knickers and America's Next Top Bimbo and the other inanity that makes up our REAL national dialog that the theft of our Constitution (and of fair elections) can be pulled off in broad daylight.

In short, the dazzling feat the Bush team has accomplished is the creation of an autocracy in which free speech exists, but is without consequence. We shout and scream and beg our fellow citizens to give a damn about the end of the rule of law -- actions that would have sent us all to the Gulag or worse in past surveillance states. But they need not bother with jailing you or any of the rest of us. They can let us pull the fire alarm, because they have so numbed and dumbed down the nation that they are confident that no one will respond.

In the dystopia of Fahrenheit 451, books had to be burned. In ours, they can be safely ignored, because the citizenry is functionally (and willfully) illiterate.

Blue Meme

Sunday, December 16, 2007 05:04 PM

@clyons11

Filibusters are a rare event. They're supposed to be, based on the Senate's so-called "cool the hot tea in the saucer" theory of legislative procedure.

When was the last time a U.S. Senator launched one?

One would hope that Dodd's effort, if he makes it, will get plenty of coverage. If Biden and the rest just do their jobs and show up, so much the better.

The Republicans can demagogue his effort in two ways, by accusing him of delaying Senate business and wasting everybody's time, since they proposed recently, during a high moment of political wisdom, to abolish the filibuster, to get rid of it altogether. Also, since he's a presidential candidate, they can attack him as a grandstander.

Would someone suggest that a filibuster, a very rare thing these days, is somehow illegitimate?

How would the Foxies play it?

Rush?

Reid, if he wants to avoid the problem, probably has to find a way, within the bounds of good form, to prevent Dodd from taking the floor in the first place.

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