I could not agree more with you on your 'speak for yourself' comments. It's infuriating to watch them ramble all around the periphery of every question, subject, answer.

We might all be Republicans in 20 years. Are we Lincoln Republicans or FDR Democrats. What about Republicans? Are they Lincoln Republicans or George Wallace Democrats?

simply a false dichotomy, or if you simply equate seeking solutions outside of the structure of the democratic party as equivalent to “burn the mother down!”

-- talesofunrest

Outside of the Democratic party structure is... what?

The Republican party that put Lincoln in office was a third party. It worked for TR as well. That was almost 100 years ago. If and when one emerges that I can support and it can take political power away from Republicans and Democrats (I'll admit that it looks more and more like that time is coming), I'm there. I'm not there to split the party and put a Republican in the WH. Especially not with at least 2 SCOTUS appointments coming up. Maybe even 3.

Since we have very active political activists that have worked recently in political campaigns (too many to count, but these two have had extremely interesting discourses today) I would really love to ask what seems like a dumb question:

I understand marketing a candidate and branding a candidate and playing ads in markets and all that, but why do these handlers decide what a candidate should say and how they should say it when the candidate is a U.S. Senator? I mean, these are people who live in the greatest oratory body in the U.S. and speak their opinions on matters of policy for their daily bread, why on earth wouldn't you want them to decide for themselves what to talk about and how to say it?

When the NPR debate went down, the low budget senators that were writing their own, Messrs. Biden and Dodd, absolutely outshone any of the handled senators, Messrs. Obama and Edwards and Ms. Clinton. We've been disappointed with the Gore campaign, and then the Kerry campaign, and speaking solely for myself, I kept thinking the whole time "Speak for yourself, John" (as they say in Massachusetts).

Why have a handler for a job you can do better yourself?

As I see it, I only have two choices, Barack and Hillary. So I can't create my perfect candidate. Actually the most qualified are Dodd and Biden. I don't see them making it. I much prefer Obama over Clinton.

I really hope you are right about Obama. It all seems such a desperate gamble right now, this voting thing.

I'm too late. It's clear you heart is already on your sleeve. I hope Obama doesn't disappoint you.

My basic response to your questions and comments on my post has to do with the idea of reality.

First, reality is that which universally applies to all with exception: it involves necessity. Reason involves coming to terms with necessity. Someone in an ivory tower can reason as correctly as someone in the trenches. I brought up my experiences only to say: hey, the ivory tower dudes and the in the trenches dude have come to the same conclusion through their reasoning. Thus charge that only ivory tower dudes would argue this way does not seem to be a cogent response to the argument.

Second, I hope I have raised my children such that they would be horrified at the thought of my doing something evil to protect them, if per impossible such a hypothetical should arise; that they would hate me for saving their lives through doing something unjust. The idea of reality applies here as well: a universal condition. If justice is real, then it cannot be ignored by anyone. So I was not just thinking of myself. When we act, our actions implicate all.

Finally, I hope you are right and America has not yet been destroyed. And if the folks in charge abandoned the rule of law out of fear or misguided compassion, and are continuing to do it out of some wild misapprehension of reality, we need to return them to reality as quickly as we can; and the very best thing we could do for them, if we really respect them, it to call them to account and punish them for it. I would hope that if I ever did something unjust that somehow people would find it in their hearts to respect me enough to punish me and to try to return me to my senses.

Torture is simply wrong.

I understand suffering. I just get nervous whenever people start looking to one man, any one man (or woman), for salvation. Especially now with the power that has been consolidated in the executive, which I concede Col. Lang may even underestimate slightly.

Speaking of death and suffering, just once I'd like to see some conservative dickweed like Shooter get as worked up about stuff like this as he does about 9/11:

On May 31, 1889, a neglected dam and a phenomenal storm led to a catastrophe in which 2,209 people died. It's a story of great tragedy, but also of triumphant recovery. Visit the Johnstown Flood Museum, which is operated by the Johnstown Area Heritage Association, to find out more about this shocking episode in American history.

The Western Reservoir (later renamed Lake Conemaugh) had been constructed not for recreation, but instead to provide water for the section of the Pennsylvania Canal between Johnstown and Pittsburgh. However, the canal system became obsolete almost immediately after the reservoir was completed in 1852. Very little maintenance was performed on the dam during its existence, even though it broke once already in 1862 (this break caused very little damage, as the reservoir was only half full). In fact, one owner removed the drainage pipes beneath the dam to sell them for scrap, which meant there was no way to drain the reservoir for repairs. The reservoir and dam passed through several hands before the South Fork Fishing & Hunting Club bought it in 1879.

The South Fork Fishing & Hunting Club counted many of Pittsburgh's leading industrialists and financiers among its 61 members, including Andrew Carnegie, Henry Clay Frick, Andrew Mellon, and Philander Knox. (click here for a complete list of club members). Organized in 1879, the purpose of the club was to provide the members and their families an opportunity to get away from the noise, heat and dirt of Pittsburgh. The club owned the Western Reservoir, the dam that created it, and about 160 acres of land in the area. The club renamed the reservoir, calling it Lake Conemaugh. A 47-room clubhouse, featuring a huge dining room that could seat 150, was the main building on the club's land. There were also 16 privately-owned "cottages," actually houses of a generous size, along the lake's shores. The club's boat fleet included a pair of steam yachts, many sailboats and canoes, and boathouses to store them in. Entertainments included an annual regatta, theatricals and musical performances.

The club did engage in periodic maintenance of the dam, but made some harmful modifications to it. They installed fish screens across the spillway to keep the expensive game fish from escaping, which had the unfortunate effect of capturing debris and keeping the spillway from draining the lake's overflow. They also lowered the dam by a few feet in order to make it possible for two carriages to pass at the same time, so the dam was only about four feet higher than the spillway. The club never reinstalled the drainage pipes so that the reservoir could be drained.

When the dam broke on May 31, 1889, only about a half-dozen members were on the premises, as it was early in the summer season. They left immediately following the disaster, and the club members were largely silent about the tragedy. A small crowd of angry flood survivors went up to the club and broke into some of the buildings, breaking windows and destroying furniture, but no major damage was done...

http://www.jaha.org/FloodMuseum/clubanddam.html

Maybe he can watch it on the Hitler Channel.