You don't reform police departments from the inside. You reform the city or state governments which sanction them.

I might also add that police department reforms imposed from the outside which don't change the internal culture of the department usually fail. The revolving door at the LAPD, for example, hasn't changed anything of real significance since Chief Parker first recast it as a professional paramilitary decades ago. In such cases firing everybody, changing the name, the color of the uniforms, the training program, the rules of engagement, etc., might work, but in such a case, what would be gained by denying that you'd actually replaced the institution?

-- William Timberman

You raise some interesting points and I would say it depends on the level of corruption and how widespread it is, and is it a symptom of greater political corruption in the city and county at large. Great bit of research on the subject if you care to: On the Take: From Petty Crooks to Presidents

http://www.amazon.com/Take-Petty-Crooks-Presidents-Midland/dp/0253202981

20 years of research in Seattle back in the 70s. probably my favorite textbook. Read like a novel.

http://www.gwu.edu/~chamblis/home/main.html

I think I now have a better idea of what your objection to plunging the nation into, what I will euphemistically refer to as, a cathartic period of darkness is. The civic body being too far gone to resist no matter what occurs certainly seems to be an argument that carries some force, especially in light of the last few years (man, I miss my habeas corpus. JUST KIDDING HOMELAND SECURITY GUY! LOVE THAT COMMANDER IN CHIEF!!)

Still not exactly sure what the ‘something different’ you are in favor of is, though.

All I can say is "so what?" This kind of bs has been going on in this administration since day one. It is now patently clear that regardless of what this administration does, what investigations the Dems launch or what evidence of illegal activity is uncovered, there isn't a congressman currently sitting who will do any damned thing about it. There is such overwhelming evidence for impeachment already and yet no one can muster the courage to even say the "I" word. So it appears Nancy Pelosi is right after all...this is nothing but a monumental waste of time.

Jesus is taking them to NH on the Ron Paul Blimp.

Geez. Why you got pick on the poor ol' Rockefellers? The formula is pretty simple:

Rockefeller + Bad = Conspiracy Theory

QED

The institutions have not failed. The people in those institutions are more corrupt than ever, often without even knowing it, because today that is how the game is played. Public financing of elections would fix that.

I didn't say that the GOP's takeover was overnight. I said they pushed for the hard right from the beginning as a tactic (your example of Goldwater is excellent -- he was the genesis of the movement and he was no GOP version of Clinton or Obama).

Goldwater lost... To Nixon and "Nixon was the most socialist of the presidents of the United States in the 20th century."

Take it up with Uncle Milty. He said it. I didn't.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/shared/minitextlo/int_miltonfriedman.html

So if by incrementalism you mean it's gonna take a while, sadly I agree and I'm sorry for the mistake. If you mean the Democrats are emulating the GOP strategy for success by moderating (in the beltway meaning of moderation), then I disagree.

I agree with you and me on the former, not sure what you mean by "moderation" in the latter.

DLF,

Interesting hypothesis. It's not working on me. I care very much who gets elected. Always do.

Che,

I think some of the financial and economic mess is far more drastic than any of this other stuff. (Clinton's "It's the economy, stupid.")

So it depends on what crisis, we face so many, you happen to be referring to when you say.... whatever metaphor you choose to use. I still think reports of the United States' death - or its constitution - are greatly exaggerated.

but I think you're wrong.

Public financing of elections hasn't a chance of happening through or under or around our current institutions.

It would take a different set of poltical institutions to have universal public financing of elections.

-- art guerrilla is not Bebop, but I wonder if anyone has seen Beeb lately. When he's not around you really notice it. Is he Okay?

Just when you think you've heard it all, another 'laugh a minute' rears it's ugly head.

Haydn (head of the CIA) now says the the two interrogation tapes that were destroyed to protect the identities of the interrogators.

Gimme a break! Why wasn't this a concern between the time the tapes were made and the time they were destroyed in 2005. Also

as Senator Levin said there would be uncountable of these that would have to be disposed of, because of their undeniable presence

throughout the CIA.

Lastly, and most important they can't blank out the faces, like we see on TV all time.

Are they that antiquated, Gen. Haydn, you sorry excuse for a human being.

I take your point but I think you're wrong.

Could be. ;-)

It would take a different set of political institutions...

In your vision what would those be?

Bebop is reportedly traveling in KY this weekend with little or no Net access.

Public financing of elections hasn't a chance of happening through or under or around our current institutions.

It would take a different set of poltical institutions to have universal public financing of elections.

-- Ché Pasa

Researching it some time ago I think I read that most states have mixed systems, not totally publicly funded and not totally private but a mix. The real stumbling block is that you have just eliminated it as an option from the get go. If we can get health care, why not this is next? Why shoot yourself in the foot like that and not even take the first step?