An arm of the state, in fact, with the monoploy on domestic coercive force, no less.

LOL at LWM sounding like Tucker Carlson.

If you just looked at the evidence Glenn has provided about Rockefeller, I don't think you would be so forgiving. Senator Whitehouse overcame the classification problem. Rockefeller put himself into the position of being a dupe for the Busheviks and corporate world primarily because of his psychological and ego deficiencies as was well spelled out in earlier posts.

Now that you are addressing one another directly, Aycharaych, Talesofunrest, & Dounia, maybe you could take it to an IM session? Kitt's right; we're not that interested,

There are plenty of posts here that I don't find particularly interesting. There are also a lot of side conversations.. Why is it that you feel the need to single out myself and two others for your thread Nazi proclivities?

I will post what I wish to post and have conversations with those I wish to have conversations with, you are welcome to skip them if you find them objectionable.

I come and go here thanks to my work schedule but I have actually been around for a considerable time under other handles. For instance, I can remember when bebop-o was clownsense..

And Kitty told me that I was wrong about a lot of things on a previous thread and, despite much prompting from me, utterly refuses to elaborate on his assertion.

Which leads me to believe that Kitty was lying when he told me that there were many topic on which he thought I was wrong.

I agree with your point of view, but no Rockefeller would ever be a dupe of Bushco. The Rockefellers have been at the top of the American aristocracy for over a hundred years. I would never expect any Rockefeller to act for the benefit of the American public.

That a Rockefeller could even get elected is a sign of American amnesia.

Point well taken. Corporate a-holes beget corporate a-holes. Oh how the Bush family has proven that.

Just a favor to ask.

If you're going to harangue Kitt over some unanswered question, at least have the courtesy to remind us what the question was so we can judge for ourselves who's being a jerk. Most of us are insufficiently interested to go back to old threads and without that context the default position doesn't look good for your side.

I come and go here thanks to my work schedule but I have actually been around for a considerable time under other handles.

Since you brought it up, can you please assuage my curiosity: is one of them hrh?

In case you're interested, I replied to his obnoxious harangue several hours ago.

http://tinyurl.com/2j7uz9

I didn't say that the GOP's takeover was overnight. I said they pushed for the hard right from the beginning as a tactic (your example of Goldwater is excellent -- he was the genesis of the movement and he was no GOP version of Clinton or Obama).

So if by incrementalism you mean it's gonna take a while, sadly I agree and I'm sorry for the mistake. If you mean the Democrats are emulating the GOP strategy for success by moderating (in the beltway meaning of moderation), then I disagree.

1. please don't insult bebop-o with comparisons to myself; bebop-o may be a part of the godhead in us all, but i'm pretty sure i ain't not be no bebop-o... (more's the pity)

2. my 'style' (such as it is) originated *years* ago in an obscure newsgruppe before bebop-o was a gleam in the inertnet's eye... besides, he is *much* more like steam of consciousness, while i'm the court jester with a taser... like elvis, my aim is true, kampers...

3. aschyachsyscysyshcchh, whatthefuckever, keep on keepin' on: nine one one *was* the crime of the millennium, but *NOT* for the reasons most sheeple (LWM) think...

4. speaking of sheeple, LWN: in some ways, i believe i have more in common with my reichwing brethren who are at least aware of the crisis of democracy (regardless of the ill-thought out 'reasons' they ascribe for it), and have the balls to arm and prepare to fight for it...

handwringing liberals (*ptui*) ? not so much...

5. LWM, i also hear the reichwingnutjobz use words like 'and', 'the' and 'asshole'; are you going to preclude those words from your lexicon as well, censorious one ?

6. che pasa wore a 2-2, hhh

7. in response to a previous thread's sheeple: real, lasting progressive changes of nearly any importance have ALWAYS come at the cost of the blood of many struggling revolutionaries...

A

L

W

A

Y

S

8. we'll pay in someone else's blood for civil rights, the right to vote, the right to unionize...

but let's not talk about that...

we'll pay in someone else's blood for cheap oil, virtually unlimited traveling, and hyper-convenience...

no problem, its 'the way things are'...

we'll pay in someone else's blood for their resources, our cheap junk, our bloated consumerism...

we deserve it... (right?)

we'll endure hundreds of thousands of preventable/premature deaths for the sake of profitable industries...

what's the big deal ?

we'll pay in someone else's blood for worldwide domination, rapacious economic policies, and unsustainable living choices...

i got mine, too bad there's nothing left for you...

yeah, we'll spill plenty of blood to keep oil flowing, endless gluttony, and terminal consumption; but we dasn't breath a word of what blood sacrifice it will take to break out of a corrupt system and debased leadership beyond redemption...

shhh! shhh! shhh!

there were loyalists, there were cowardly fencesitters, and there were rebels when the hard rain came down; where will you be when the hard rain comes ? ? ?

where ? where ? where ?

art guerrilla

aka ann archy

eof

Damb. Nobody even knows what a decent cadre is anymore.

How the mighty have fallen!

Note to LWM: I maintain we long since went over that "cliff" we keep fretting we're about falling off of, and the Titanic hit that iceberg long ago. We can't prevent what's already happened.

And to RMP and any others who see my view as "virtual hopelessness": apparently I'm not communicating well enough, because I'm not hopeless at all, nor do I think we're in a hopeless situation, nor have I given up.

Despite all the reality the lefty blogosphere community is supposedly based on, I see almost as much fabulizing on this side as on the other. I wish, I really wish, Feingold and Durbin and Whitehouse and the rest of them who speak out from time to time would actually, you know, DO something. Any one of them in the Senate could have... they won't. Well, Dodd says he will, and maybe he will, good on him if he does, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Feingold has been in a position to put his foot down and stop or at least significantly delay some of the worst abuses of the Busheviks for years, and he's always talked a great line. What's he done? Ever filibustered bad law? Nope. Ever stopped a Bush nominee? Nope. I used to have some faith in him; no more. Sorry. The Senate is a failed institution. Any of them could start reversing that failure tomorrow. So far, nope. Comity is more important than anything. And yet, when Feingold called for something as mild as censure, he was bitchslapped from one end of the Senate to the other, by members of his own party. Comity my ass.

The House hasn't been much better. It, too, is a failed institution. What the Dems did to Cynthia McKinney -- making an example of her -- was shameful. But that was and is the standard they're still operating on. OK. That means that nothing will be done to interfere with Bush's bloodsoaked joyride. A lot of talk, you bet. No action.

There are a handful of Senators and a somewhat larger cohort of House members who seem to believe the nation is capable of something better than the Busheviks and are trying to push their colleagues toward that better future, but it is often an exercise in futility. The Big Picture just doesn't enter the majority thinking in our Congress.

Doesn't mean we should stop trying, it means what we're doing isn't working. Maybe we should try something else.

What would that be? (Cadres! We need cadres!)

Well, it is not to turn the whole thing over to the fascists and their running dogs, for that really is giving up.

"Oh, but they'll make it so much worse for everyone, surely the masses will rise up as one and crush the monsters we let loose. That's the ticket!" Bullshit. No they won't.

Truly. The American People will not rise up. I am convinced they cannot. The only element in our society that has even an inkling of "uprising" left in it are the wingnuts and fascists. Real Leftists are endangered species and nearly extinct. I blame Reagan, but what really happened is more complex.

So. What do you do with no chance for a real uprising from the left (and honestly, there is none). I say you take your cues from the Progressives of yore, and how they did it; they did it nonviolently, essentially subversively, and they took over by force of will as much as by ideological rigor. They did it through elections, but not just through elections. What they did was pull the rug out from under the grossly corrupt and wildly inefficient government/plutocracy amalgam and replaced it with something better.

Progressives of yore were not The Masses, far from it. They were... cadres.

Well, that's another essay for another time.