Letters to the Editor
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It Is All Just Politics
Well, Glenn, you seem to think that concepts like the rule of law, civil liberties, constitutional rights and the like are real. You should understand by now that for the Beltway insiders you call the really serious people it is all just politics.
The stench of nihilism is like the smell of a drowning victim retrieved from the water after three months.
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@tominwindsor
The stench of nihilism is like the smell of a drowning victim retrieved from the water after three months.
Or the stench of a dead republic that lost its second imperial war in 30 years.
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Either dems or repubs. Whatever. Torture is torture. Killing is killing.
Just hours before his execution John Andre did a pencil sketch of himself. It was a self-portrait. He gave it to one of his guards.
John Andre's final request-- to be shot as a soldier, not to be hanged as a spy-- was denied. On Oct. 2, 1780, a 30- year old John Andre walked to the gallows and a noose was placed around his neck. To the American officers who accompanied him, and came to respect him, he said simply, "I would have you gentlemen bear me witness that I die like a brave man."
In a book entitled 'History of England' George the 3rd was touched by the tragedy of Andre's death, and built a monument in Westminster Abbey...
...at least, repubs or dems, I say, it would be 'nice' to see some figuratively speaking, (thanks G.O.) balls.
Wow-- they use to talk about the "enemy in disguise" but we have not gone forward...
...we've gone backwards.
And we "debate" waterboarding...Shame.
People use to talk-- I think, about putting a end to war and the want he/others tried to express was: *
* To stop the effusion of human blood, and war crimes.
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more on waterboarding
handy waterboarding graphic here
http://tshirtinsurgency.com/gitmo-shirt
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Jordan Orlando may also not have had a little brother
Jordan, you do yeoman's work in engaging shooter, and your posts are always well-reasoned and complete. And if it's a good exercise for you, or posted for the enjoyment and edification of others, have at it man.
However, remember that he/she is not interested in learning anything from you... he/she will ignore anything you succeed in invalidating and change the subject to something more congenial. Indeed, you may want to recall the wise counsel of Matthew and not "cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."
Of course, as the elders say, YMMV.
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Coming To Your Senses
Glenn,
You are coming around (finally). Sometimes it takes really smart people longer. They are able to create elaborate defenses... see THE BELTWAY ESTABLISHMENT. However, I believe you are open to the possibility that things are pretty far gone in ole Washington, DC. Perhaps too far gone. Perhaps gone so far that the only possible saviour is the Shock Doctrine. However, not the planned Shock Doctrine like "Shock and Awe." More of un unplanned Shock like a Great Depression. It is unfortunate that morals are not more firmly held by our leaders. The shocks COULD be avoided if that were the case.
This is not to say "give up, Glenn." I would never say that. It is more to say, "I am enjoying your take on things these days, Glenn."
Peace,
-Derek Java
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More details on waterboarding.
For those interested in more details about waterboarding, and why it is unquestionably torture, this site might be a little more persuasive than Wikipedia:
http://snipurl.com/1t26n
It comes from Malcolm Nance, "a former Master Instructor and Chief of Training at the US Navy Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape School," who describes it in terms that leave no doubt whatsoever.
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Interesting.
I'll go and maybe find some time to read about Brigadier Gen. Benedict Arnold, and wonder about the words, "great American heroes"
It get jumbled.
J. Andre, for good zeal or what [?] goes on in the minds of others, J. Andre was hung in the regimentals dress he had requested.
It gets dumbfounding.
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@Paul Daniel Ash
However, remember that he/she is not interested in learning anything from you.
I know, I know...but I'm a liberal idealist and I still hold out hope that underneath all the bullshit is a thinking, rational, moral individual with a conscience who on some level knows he's engaging in meretricious word games in support of a profoundly objectionable and transparently dishonest regime. He may never admit it here, but I hope that he mulls over what we all say and privately admits the ground he loses.
I've had long-standing debates with Conservatives over the years and many of them have admitted (grudgingly or not) that I've gotten them to understand the value of the liberal position, if only because I talk in straight lines and persistently try to make logical sense and keep attacking, rather than simply insulting them or falling into the kind of liberal "hissy fit" that's so easily dismissed. (Nobody here does that, I hasten to add).
I think on some level shooter242 knows that Bush is full of shit and that his regime has been a disaster even by its own standards and measures; he'll never admit it (and I'm sure his next post will be a snide dismissal of these words I'm typing right now; pure braggadocio), but because shooter242 is a true authoritarian he will go down fighting, defending the undefendable and supporting the unsupportable until a "stronger," "better" authoritarian movement comes along and he can finally admit how bad the Bush era was.
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Jordan Orlando. You are clear.
And a shooter242 would be hung in past days if the riotous GOP's are not gotten rid of...non-violence is best. I agree.
I think of Gene Sharp (from Harvard? I forget) who contributed thought about the History Of Non-Violence and Resistance to past reigns of authoritarian murderous one of horrible ilk. shut off. okay.
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re: It's a great technique if you don't care about anything except scoring a cheap point that you don't even score.
6) In so doing, shooter242 can "declare victory" ("Get over it") without addressing the correctness of Greenwald's attack or the underlying issue of whether setting buildings on fire is bad.
Well gee, that depends on whether we're talking about arson or a controlled burn of a crack house. Regardless, I didn't address the issue of Mukasey's testimony, but merely countered the Bush's "personal choice" idea.
But since you brought it up, this mornings WSJ opinion piece outlines the opportunities passed to specifically declare waterboarding illegal. All have failed.
If Democrats want to strip the CIA of this tool, then they ought to legislate it openly, not make law under the table through the confirmation process. Congress has twice had the chance to ban or criminalize waterboarding, but it declined to do so in both the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005 and the Military Commissions Act of 2006. And not for lack of trying: In debating the Military Commissions Act, Ted Kennedy offered a detailed amendment that specifically prohibited waterboarding, as well as other coercive interrogation methods; it lost on the Senate floor, 46-53. http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010815
For the umpteenth time, the meme that the country is anti-whatever to the degree claimed is just not true. Regardless, I commend you and Glenn doing the "Code Pink" thing from the rear of the room. One has to follow one's conscience. Keep up the good work.