Letters to the Editor
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What if?
"But what if it's true? What if there are Americans urging war because they think it's good for Israel and don't care about the effect on the U.S.? Are we not allowed to say that?"
And what if it's true that was the prime motivation for the war?
When Cindy Sheehan realizes that her son died in order to protect Israel, I wonder how she is going to feel.
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Further Ruminations of a Bigot
The bigot being me, apparently.
Understand that I am guilty of anti-semitism regardless of my own subjective motivation and intent in criticizing AIPAC. I am an anti-semite even if my criticism of AIPAC has nothing to do with its being a jewish organization, and even though my criticism of AIPAC is precisely the same as my criticism of republicans, i.e., that both believe in reposing in bush (a manifest madman, in my opinion) plenary authority on the question of whether to attack Iran. I suppose then that I'm also an anti-republican bigot, too.
I might have to cop to being an anti-republican bigot, because virtually all republicans favor this bush authority and, to be truthful, I really don't like 'em. By contrast, I'm fully aware and believe with certainty that the overwhelming majority of Jews differ from AIPAC on this issue and agree with me, but I am nonetheless an anti-semite.
The implications of WinShip's equation of any criticism of AIPAC with anti-semitism are endlessly fascinating.
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nope
As I understand it, you contend that any criticism of AIPAC effectively deligitimizes the notion that anti-Semitism exists.
Not even in the ballpark. Go back and reread and try again.
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Conspiracy theories
The first rule of conspiracy theories is that it isn't a conspiracy if it takes place in plain view.
He's arguing that Jewish agenda is at work behind the scenes as one of the driving forces of American foreign policy.
AIPAC is a lobbying group that spends a lot of money. Fact. Lobbyist spend money because they get a return on investment. Fact. AIPAC is a hawkish organization. Fact. AIPAC believes the money it spends influences our foreign policy to be more closely aligned with its hawkish agenda. Fact. AIPAC claims to be a pro-Israel lobby. Fact.
AIPAC does not operate "behind the scenes", it operates completely in the open just like the AARP does. It is not conspiracy theory to point out that AIPAC spends a lot of money in order to weild influence. (If lobbyist money came without influence they'd stop spending)
It is not a "Jewish agenda", those are your words. It is not some secret Jewish zionist cabal - again your words.
It's no more conspiracy theory to say that AIPAC affects our foriegn policy that it is to say that the AARP affects our domestic policy - that is why AIPAC exists at all. That is the whole purpose of the organization.
There's no conspiracy. AIPAC trades money for influence in plain view. What do you think they are getting for the money they spend? They aren't a charity.
*You* are the one claiming that such criticisms play into a "racist narrative" about the "Jewish agenda" and secretive cabals, and you were the person who introduced those terms into the discussion in the first place.
I'll say what I want about the ADL and AIPAC and I invite others to do the same, without worrying about what some scold with the vapors thinks is permissable.
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Desmond Tutu the anti-semite
Jane (one of the Fox accused Nazi's) over at FDL links to this article and weighs in on the topic, too.
http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/06/desmond-tutu-and-the-moral-inconsistency-of-the-right/#comments
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David Duke
When David Duke was campaigning for president, he picked up steam in Louisiana, which sparked polls and discussion all over the South. In my town at the time, a poll came out showing that the most hated group was far and away ---- atheists. 27% said that they should not be allowed to live in their neighborhoods. Not far behind were what Duke was calling miscegenists. Duke, being magnanimous at the time and not wanting to be thrown out of the Republican Party (or perhaps daring them to do so), claimed a lack of racial or ethnic bias to either blacks or Jews, but drew the line very firmly against miscegenists and atheists. The fact that there was a good probability that many of my neighbors agreed with him didn't make it easy to watch them congregate in front of our house before walking to church. The fact that he was Klan brought back memories of hiding black friends from burning crosses out on the highway in Florida -- it makes your blood seethe that anyone voted for him at all.
Any thoughts, WinSmith? I haven't heard you decry his main message, only the part that applied to you. Or don't we matter, we atheist, impure, mixed-race marriages?
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@WinSmith
Man...I can't help but think it is telling that I have addressed you twice now in a respectful, un-righteous, hopefully sensitive manner and you've ignored me in favor of this ridiculous locker room banter with folks who have no use for what you are selling.
What is that about?
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I hate all Jews
There, I admit it. Now that we've gotten that out of the way let's continue. Ha.
Present company excluded, of course.
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Oh, it's in the ballpark ...
This is getting more absurd by the minute.
nope
As I understand it, you contend that any criticism of AIPAC effectively deligitimizes the notion that anti-Semitism exists. - -- thomas c
Not even in the ballpark. Go back and reread and try again. --WinSmith
Here's WinSmith's verbatim statement:
I can only tell you that embedded within this question is the delegitimization of anti-Semitism itself. Because under your "I just want to criticize AIPAC" will scurry the true anti-Semites like David Duke.
You truely think his statement was not even in the ballpark? And we've been wasting all this time trying to have a reasonable discussion with you? Even Glenn replied.
What a waste!
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I read it quite closely
The correct syntactical reading of what you wrote was that criticism of AIPAC deligitimizes anti-semitism. But of course anti-semitism SHOULD BE delegitimized, because it is bigotry. So you didn't apparently write what you meant, because I'm sure we both feel anti-semitism should indeed be delegitimized.
Perhaps you could clarify what you meant, because your initial effort was incoherent.