Letters to the Editor
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October Treason
In addition to the efforts by Ledeen, et al to assist Iran in obtaining weapons during a time when, ahem, Iran "was at war with us,"(sic), would it not also be treason for representatives of that administration--prior to their even having won the election--to engage in negotiations with "the enemy" to reject diplomatic resolution of the then ongoing hostage crisis with the sitting Carter administration, and to actually have the American hostages held for longer than they might have been, simply in order to better assure a Reagan victory at the polls?
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Shouldn't Ledeen...
...be somewhere forging docs that "prove" Iran was working with Saddam to build nukes to give to OBL?
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Abizaid's comments, war with Iran, etc
One of the many things that frustrates me about the hysterical and inane tone of our public discourse on Iran and the "global war on terror" is the unwillingness people seem to have to acknowledge something which should be so simple:
If Bush,jr and the neocons keep frightening people in predominantly Islamic countries with talk of war as if it were nothing, and seem so unwilling to learn from their own mistakes, then isn't it in fact rational for an Islamic country to try to get nuclear arms? If Iran did have nukes, Bush wouldn't f*** with them, and assuming they could safeguard their arsenal from outsiders wanting to steal them and internal political struggles, Iran would actually be safer.
Moreover, if the Bushies really do have a long-range plan to start one war after another in order to dominate the region, might not the Russians or Chinese decide to facilitate Iran getting nukes so that Bush would finally be brought to heel?
Since the US government is no longer functioning to curb their out-of-control president, the Russians and Chinese could very well feel obligated to create that parity. It would be a bitter irony for Americans, that the largest communist and ex-communist state might apply a policy of containment-- on us.
I am not advocating that these things should come to pass, but they strike me as fairly reasonable possibilities. If Americans weren't intent on believing rot like "they're insane" or "they hate us for our freedoms" then others could see these dangers.
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Congressman Lincoln opposed the Mexican War himself
Glenn, you might add that little point to your evisceration of Gaffney, Ledeen, and other neocons who slander Lincoln's memory by claiming that Honest Abe wanted to hang the Copperhead Democrats in Congress during the Civil War.
In the Civil War, Lincoln was so tolerant of dissent that he might have lost the 1864 election to Gen. McClellan if Sherman had not taken Atlanta prior to the voting - and if the Union Generals had not mobilized the troops to be sure that all the troops cast votes. Honest Abe was not an authoritarian, but he didn't hesitate to manipulate all the levers of democratic elections to produce a favorable result!
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Ledeen's Mettle
Thanks Glenn for the post and the insight into Ledeen's character. Too bad this neoconservative warrior begins to wilt under the onslaught of your two politely worded e-mails.
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@ Egypt Steve
Next time you have ML on the line, ask him if he is willing to consider the possibility that we've actually been at war with Iran since 1956,...
At least 1953. Kermit Roosevelt and the CIA and the Mossadegh ouster. Details in Stephen Kinzer's fine book "All The Shah's Men" (another good one of his is "Overthrow").
But the British had been meddling for far longer; you could say it's nigh on a century old....
Cheers,
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The U.S. orchestrated a coup in Iran in 1953. This is an undisputed fact.
If Mr. Ledeen insists on claiming that Iran declared war on us in 1979, he must admit that WE declared war on Iran in 1953 by removing their democratically elected prime minister Mossadegh.
Why is this never mentioned vis-a-vis our relations with Iran? Does American foreign policy require historical ignorance to function?
Glenn, please ask Mr. Ledeen for his opinion of the American overthrow of Iran's democratically elected government in 1953 next time you email him.
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I'm Just One American Liberal
And only speak for myself. I don't hate our military. I just don't think their farts smell like flowers. I regret if this causes any conservative grave consternation.
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That explains it
Thanks for pointing out this mechanism, Glenn. I'd noticed it but hadn't really figured out exactly what they were doing. Our own "Golden Boy" does the same thing -- which is why he's been accused of being either Michael Ledeen or David Horowitz in disguise -- he "demonstrates" how loathsome and unredeemable Muslims are, but when asked what to do about this alleged horridness, he always dodges the question. I hadn't realized it was an actual technique until now.
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Glenn vs Ledeen and Kristol
Not much of a fight.
Time to accuse these two of foreign loyalties. There is no way they have the interest of the US in mind with these Middle East wars.
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Iran at war
The truth about Iran is that they, the country of Iran, have been at war with the U.S. since the mid-50's. Ike allowed the CIA with the Brits to ouster a democratically elected, albeit socialist, PM in 1953 and we supported the Shah and his brutal SAVAK for 25 years. 1979 was merely the turning point of that war (that, arguably, we started) when the country of Iran set up a government that was "at war" with us. A family member of mine witnessed popular riots in Tehran in the early 60's that required U.S. military members to have armed escorts to get to work each day. We have not been good to the Iranian people for a very long time.
However, I'm sure the neo-con punditocracy could spin this to fit their war chant.
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@ Paul Dirks
"There was a time when the phrase "at war" actually had a meaning."
I suspect that may have been when we actually had to declare war in order to engage in it, rather than simply say we are "at war" with something we don't like.
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Tally-ho
As I wrote at the time, quoting Talleyrand, "it was worse than a crime, it was a blunder."
This is like Richard Perle's "I think if I had been delphic” and Paul Wolfowitz' "trying to navigate in uncharted waters."
Simultaneously covering your ass and being in love with the sound of your own voice.