Letters posted here are associated with the following article:

217
Letters
Thursday, August 30, 2007 12:00 AM

Forcing Larry Craig's resignation while embracing David Vitter

Cost-free moralism is the only type the right-wing "traditional marriage" movement believes in.

The letters thread is now closed.

View:
Thursday, August 30, 2007 12:44 PM

@doofus

"What is stopping Democratic Senators and representatives, ... from... calling on Vitter to resign?"

Resign for what reason?

Thursday, August 30, 2007 12:46 PM

@ Kitt

A mind at play is also a mind at work. Making that manifest is bebop-o's great contribution to our dialogues. When you see the sadness visited on all and sundry by folks who don't get that very simple, but very profound truth -- such as the Republican snake-handlers and their panderers under discussion here today -- it makes you yearn for the company of rocks, or better, of five-year olds.

I'm long past my parenting days, but what I remember about them is not so much what I taught, as what I learned. Whenever I meet an adult who's managed to keep that part of himself alive, I always feel better, sometimes for weeks. Bebop-o has managed it better than most, and is eloquent even when his muse is busy elsewhere. He's a treasure, and an excellent reminder of what is possible for all of us. As one of my favorite poets, Charles Bukowski, once said, God -- or somebody -- bless him.

Thursday, August 30, 2007 12:50 PM

A suspicion based on evidence not admissable anywhere except maybe here

SomeNYGuy, I suspect that Ron Pauliac is L.W.M., and is having us on a bit. If not, my apologies to L.W.M., but I still think we're dealing with a clone of the Major rather than a true believer.

Thursday, August 30, 2007 12:50 PM

Tony Perkins

Someone should ask Chris Mathews if he considers Perkins having purchased the mailing list of white supremacist David Duke as part of that family values.

My apologies if someone already mentioned this.

Thursday, August 30, 2007 12:53 PM

Let's Talk About Sex!!!

Generally speaking, human sexuality is how people experience and express themselves as sexual beings.[1] The study of human sexuality comprises a broad range of behaviors, processes, and societal topics. Biologically, it can encompass sexual intercourse and sexual contact in all its forms, as well as medical concerns about the physiological or even psychological aspects of sexual behaviour; sociologically, it can cover the cultural, political, and legal aspects; and philosophically, it can span the moral, ethical, theological, spiritual or religious aspects.

As Michel Foucault wrote in The History of Sexuality, the concept of what activities and sensations are "sexual" is historically (and regionally and culturally) determined, and it is therefore part of a changing "discourse".[2][3][4][5] The sexual meanings (meanings of the erotic dimension of human sexual experience), are social and cultural constructs, they are made subjective only after cultural and social mediation.[6] Being the main force conditioning human relationship, sex is essentially political. In any social context, the construction of a "sexual universe" is fundamentally linked to the structures of power.[6][2][7][8] The construction of sexual meanings, is an instrument by which social institutions (religion, marketing, the educational system, psychiatry, etc.) control and shape human relationships...

Same-sex sexuality involves two individuals of the same sex. It is possible for a person whose sexual identity is heterosexual to get involved in sexual acts with people of the same sex, for example, mutual masturbation in the context of what may be considered "normal" heterosexual teen development. Homosexual people who pretend to lead a life of heterosexuality are often referred to as living "closeted" lives, that is, they hide their sexuality in "the closet". The term "closet case" is a derogatory term used to refer to another homosexual that hides his or her homosexuality or bisexuality, and "coming out" or "outing" refer to making that orientation (semi-) public voluntarily, or as an action by others, respectively.

The definition of homosexuality is a sexual attraction to members of one's own sex, though people who engage exclusively in same-sex sexual practices may not identify themselves as gay or lesbian. However, the degree of attraction complies with the varying levels of frequency, willingness, and/or interest. In sex-segregated environments, individuals may seek sex with others of their own sex (known as situational homosexuality). In other cases, some people may experiment or explore their sexuality with same (and/or different) sex sexual activity before defining their sexual identity. Health campaigns and officials often seek to target self-identified "straight" or bisexual men who have sex with men (MSM) as opposed to self-identified "gay" or homosexual men.

Despite stereotypes and common misconceptions, there are no forms of sexual activity exclusive to same-sex sexual behavior that can not also be found in opposite-sex sexual behavior, save those involving contact of the same sex genitalia such as tribadism and frot.

Among some communities (called "men on the DL" or "down-low"), same-sex sexual behavior is sometimes viewed as solely for physical pleasure. Men on the "down-low" may engage in regular (though often covert) sex acts with other men while continuing sexual and romantic relationships with women. These men often shun the more commonly-known "gay" as a term applying to stereotypically flamboyant and effeminate men.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sexuality

Vote 4 Ron Paul so he can practice his love on men and women across the country!!!

Jazztao,

It is true that Roy Cohn denied he had AIDS (claimed it was liver cancer) but that was for public consumption. He knew he had AIDS. He wasn't in "denial". He was just "denying" it.

I suspect he was well aware he enjoyed having same sex relations.

Thursday, August 30, 2007 12:56 PM

My own education in bathroom politics

My own education in bathroom politics came 15 years ago. As a college student in a major city, I worked in one of its major hotels in its security department.

Said hotel had a certain men's room that was far, far off from the usual flow of foot traffic, owing to the building's design. In fact it was so remote it was unheated most winter days, as that area would see full use only in the evenings. Word reached us that there was some unsavory activity occurring down there, so like this cop in this particular story, we were detailed to spend some time down there doing what that cop was doing.

I had read and taken classes on this kind of behavior prior to seeing it at close range--studies on the "Tearoom Trade" that were done on some notorious public bathrooms in San Francisco, for instance--and the city's library bathrooms were widely rumored to host this kind of congress as well. Nonetheless, it was a real eye-opener.

Over the course of a couple of weeks we caught about a dozen guys. We got an education in the signal code that was used. Things like being in the stall, then getting out and washing your hands, then getting back IN the stall. Or being in the stall for an excessive amount of time with your coat thrown over the top of it rather than the hook on the door.

To a man, they were all white, late-middle-age business type guys. Guys looking just like Craig. Also married with kids, right on down the line. They didn't identify themselves as gay, either, but they certainly didn't want their activity getting made known. The other parties were generally obvious street hustler types, by the way.

I don't recall stances, footsie, or hand signals being used, but other than that, nothing about this story is in any way surprising to me, including Craig's denials. It's that feeling of deja moo--that you've seen and heard this bullshit before. Neither do I doubt that there were other signals that happened in this incident that tipped off the cop which didn't make it into the published report.

My own story ends with that after enough got caught, the word on the street, or whereever word like this gets passed, apparently got out that this bathroom wasn't a good place anymore, and that was the end of that, at least for the remaining couple of years I worked there.

Grade-A weird to me, though. A homosexual bathroom encounter to get a little something-something not striking these guys as gay seemed to me to warrant a form of gymnastics that their wives would probably have appreciated in the bedroom. But as Susan Sunflower pointed out, it was hard to escape thinking that this behavior is more widespread than I first thought it was.

So, @Conservativeslayer, having seen this, the thought that cops were unfairly expending resources to try and "get" gays is not a thought that occurred to me. If the airport police were receiving complaints that this kind of activity was occurring in the bathrooms, whatcha gonna do? Put cameras in there?

I think from the perspective of the cops, solicitation and sexual activity in a public bathroom after you've gotten complaints about it, and trying to put an end to it, isn't targeting gays. I don't think it would matter which gender the two parties were or in which gender's bathroom it occurred in. It just appears to be that this is a particularly male form of behavior. We'd be having a near identical discussion about this issue if Craig had struck a wide stance in a women's bathroom and tried to cross the aisle in there.

Also, @ the first poster, I am SO hoping that "struck a wide stance" enters the lexicon before "Foleyate". You can't even make up stuff that good.

Most Active Letters Threads

530

Do Obama officials know what his Afghanistan plan is?

What explains the completely contradictory statements from key aides on a central plank of the war strategy?
128

Is my kids making me not smart?

Stay-at-home fatherhood dulls my intellect to a nub. Excuse me while I ponder the subtext of "Hippos Go Berserk"
126

Trig, the anti-abortion straw baby

Sarah Palin's son is being used to demonize pro-choicers
113

I survived Glenn Beck's Christmas spectacular

The preposterous showman brings his holiday book, and waterworks, to the stage and screen. Lights! Camera! Jesus!
99

I live in a van down by Duke University

How do I afford grad school without going into debt? A '94 Econoline, bulk food and creative civil disobedience

View all »

Letters Help

Currently in Salon