There is just no blurring over the fact that the Koran, literally, makes violent jihad against the non-believers a basic theological principle.

Koran 47:4, for example: "When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly."

Citing this kind of thing is not to cherry-pick violent quotes out of context; over 100 passages explicitly call for violence against non-believers, see for example 9:5 in which they are offered three choices: conversion, subjugation or death.

Sura 8: "Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

Koran 5:51 "Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other."

Koran 8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

Koran:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Koran 8:69 "So enjoy what you took as booty; the spoils are lawful and good."

I asked LeCastor, and anyone who would care to, to find the equivalent in the Bible to the Koran verse at 8:39. It is no good to present to me historical records of Hebrew generals killing their enemies, or of how Deuteronomy specifies criminals to be punished; I'm looking for something in the nature of an ongoing command to engage and kill non-Christians.

Go ahead. And while you are at it, find me something in Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Mormonism, or any other major religion that says "Go fight and kill the non-believer" as an ongoing command. Aruru, I can write your answer for you; but I suspect there is no thoughtful, correct answer to my question. And that is what helps define Islam as different.

I like how GB totally ignored the point that 1/3 of Americans seem to believe that the bible is the word of god and it should be taken literally. Oh well, I am not surprised.

Now, GB, maybe you have a quarrel with the differences in format. After all, the Koran is to be taken literally completely, whereas in the old and new testaments, the only parts we should take literally are the ones in quotations attributed to God and Jesus, right? So, say we strip out all the parts that are not attributed to God. We still have the whole of Deuteronomy, which begins with something like "this is god speaking, do no more and no less than what I am about totell you," and then proceeds with various instructions about burning down infidels' villages and stoning women for wearing men's clothes.

As for Mohammed, let's discuss the founder of Judaism, Abraham. Abraham tried to kill his own son, just because god told him to. He had wives and concubines, and it looks like he married his half-sister. Nice!

How many people do you think Moses/God killed in the plagues in Egypt? And Moses is considered a "good man."

Give it up, GB.

"When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you- 2 and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. [a] Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 for they will turn your sons away from following me to serve other gods, and the LORD's anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. 5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles [b] and burn their idols in the fire. 6 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession."

and

"16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy [a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you."

GB, you're getting in an Islamophobic tizzy again. Adjust your tinfoil hat to deflect those death-rays from Mecca, and stay with us here, as we're still talking reality, 'kay...

FACT: A substantial percentage of Christians believe the Bible is the literal word of God.

That includes the whole Bible, GoldenBoy.

Not the Bible as viewed/described/edited/explained by GoldenBoy. Not the "historical" Bible, as you so blithely say, attempting -- unsuccessfully I might add -- to gloss over the truth to get back to your specious argument.

The FACT that those loyal, church-going Christians who claim the Bible is literal also aren't out there stoning children and killing gays reinforces that fundamentalist religious "followers" will claim "literality" of their sacred text, and yet STILL not carry out the archaic rules -- something you seem unable to grasp after all this time.

2000+ years, and no nutjob contingents of any religions -- including Islam -- have world dominance, anything close to it, or are likely to have it in our lifetimes and far beyond.

Like it or not, THAT is the truth.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Now, let's talk about some other truths a bit.

GoldenBoy has made it clear that his avowed purpose here is as a zealot, warning people about Islam and to "expose" its evils.

By nature, this means he is patently unable to discuss facts with any objectivity.

Whether his zealotry and unflagging Islamphobia are simply unexplainable and irrational, a symptom of a mental health pathology, or the products of a paycheck I do not know, but I have my suspicions.

When he's mixing up hadiths and suras, mangling Qu'ranic quotes, and misquoting news reports, his vehement and subjective hatred of Islam and Muslims makes him incapable of presenting facts in a straightforward or untainted way. This is screamingly obvious in every one of his posts.

If he were a named entity with some sort of credential, perhaps he'd be taken slightly seriously, as he is clearly a good writer, and clearly loves to argue as sport.

But at present, his hatred, phobia and fear -- and near religious paraphrasing of Dhimmiwatch -- don't equal expertise or credibility. His ability to argue intelligently is therefore sorely impaired.

In previous posts, he frequently makes some variation of the Islamophobic argument that "Islam tells them to lie to unbelievers." This is such a convenient myth behind which he hides -- and it allows him, in his circular logic -- to ascribe whatever truth he wants to the situation.

And I want others on this thread to know that that is the premise upon Golden Boy operates.

GoldenBoy believes that if there isn't a poll, a leader, or a Muslim himself or herself who can be trusted to tell the truth. Because GoldenBoy believes that Islam gives Muslims a mandate to lie to spread the faith.

So it doesn't matter to GoldenBoy what polls find, or experts say, or the majority of Muslims do or say, or what it ACTUALLY says in the Qu'ran.

Because he will dismiss it. And he will give you HIS interpretation of the truth instead.

It's impossible for the rational among us to see him as anything other than a very phobic zealot or a paid employee of some Anti-Islamic group.

Frankly, watching Golden Boy try to discuss or argue Islam is like listening to Karl Rove talk about Hillary Clinton.

-Aruru