If the far right, and I guess in this case the moderate right, want to convince us so badly that the evil islamists are coming here, then perhaps they can explain how this is going to happen. Are they going to parachute in like "Red Dawn"? What about tanks and planes and battle ships? Are they going to bring those too? If we on the left have a hard time seeing this as anything other then a talk radio sound bite it's because no one seems to have given an explaination as to how this is supposed to happen.

Point taken--to some degree--about any false assumptions I made. My apologies. However, what's up with all the "I post under such-and-such-name for this topic, but usually anonymous for everything else"? What's that all about? How is any reasonable person supposed to assume anything other than that you have something to hide, and that your tactics just make it easier for you to obfuscate and shade the truth? Not to mention that it allows you the freedom to contradict yourself without ever being called out or noticed. Whatever, dude. Sorry I wasted my time. I won't again.

I had some time to think some more about this subject today, and I realized that I had given short shrift to the issues of creeping theocracy in the States, of the Christian variety. My honest take on it is that I feel less threatened by Christian theocracy than I do Islamic; I suppose I feel that the Christian flavor of it is more familiar, and it seems that I can "deal with it" easier.

So while you'd be quite right in thinking that I dismissed concerns around Christian theocratic dangers in too facile a manner, I have thought about it and agree that it's pernicious and needs to be fought.

But that still doesn't obviate the danger from Islam.

Golden Boy

PS There's nothing sinister about the fact that I use the "Golden Boy" moniker to talk about Islam; the registration policy forced me to chose a name and this is the issue I chose to focus on.

the Islamist movement is slowly making inroads into our USA. Bin Laden himself as well as Al Zawahiri have both invited us to convert to Islam, the first step before any aggressive action is taken. Several Islamist Extremists have stated that "We will invade your country by using your Immigration Policies and take over your country with our Religion". That Religion gives them the right to make Jihad against the infidel USA. Then a great slaughter must proceed. This will not be by an invasion force landing on our shores, as some bloggers have imagined. It will be accomplished by the exploson of several dirty bombs placed in the heart of our metropolitan districts, then repeated at intervals. The Islamist supremacists have stated that Islam is destined to rule the world. If the homosexual community is concerned about freedom of sexual expression, then it should support the US in the present conflict with Islamofascist regimes. The imagined slights or an occasional instance of intolerance is nothing compared to the state sponsored physical suffering and death sentences that would be the lot of homosexuals under Islamic rule.

Conservatives in America derive much of their motivation by trying to control human behavior. Whether it is gay rights or abortion doesn't matter.

Republicans want us all in church on Sunday. And on Monday we are supposed to toe the capitalist line.

Liberals in America derive much of their motivation by trying to control human behavior. Whether it is affirmative action or smoking doesn't matter.

Democrats want us all out of Church on Sunday. And on Monday we are supposed to toe the socialist line.--Anonymous (retold by Shooter)

"A criminal investigations report says several U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services employees are accused of aiding Islamic extremists with identification fraud and of exploiting the visa system for personal gain....Two District Adjudications Officers are allegedly involved with known (redacted) Islam terrorist members."

Read it all at http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070815/NATION/108150075/1001

Now you can either put your head in the sand, or acknowledge that we have a real problem with the adherents of the religion of peace. Please note that it is no good to point to some other group of people as an excuse for Islamic behavior. The question I have for you folks is: Why are you so anxious to apologize for Islam? It is not necessary to defend Islam in order to attack Republicans; as I've shown in this thread, Republicans are actually quite vulnerable on issues of national security.

Why defend the indefensible? Islam is totalitarian, illiberal ideology that should be considered no ally of Western liberals. For goodness sakes, the largest and most mainstream Muslim civil rights organization in the States was just named by federal prosecutors as an unindicted co-conspirator with HAMAS!

I don't understand it, and no amount of hand waving makes a difference.

I'll leave you with one more tidbit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prNdIGq8gAU

This is a noted Islamic scholar talking about the Koran. Note how according to him - surely a moderate, right? - every word is the indisputed, immutable word of God.

Now read this:

Qur'an 5:51 "Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other."

Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Qur'an 8:69 "So enjoy what you took as booty; the spoils are lawful and good."

Ishaq:326 "Allah said, `No Prophet before Muhammad took booty from his enemy nor prisoners for ransom.' Muhammad said, `I was made victorious with terror. The earth was made a place for me to clean. I was given the most powerful words. Booty was made lawful for me. I was given the power to intercede. These five privileges were awarded to no prophet before me.'" GB-this sounds just like Jesus, right folks?

Quran 4:34 "Men are (meant to be righteous and kind) guardians of women because God has favored some more than others and because they (i.e. men) spend out of their wealth. (In their turn) righteous women are (meant to be) devoted and to guard what God has (willed to be) guarded even though out of sight (of the husband). As for those (women) on whose part you fear ill-will and nasty conduct, admonish them (first), (next) separate them in beds (and last) beat them. But if they obey you, then seek nothing against them. Behold, God is most high and great."

Listen to the moderate Muslim expert's speech. These are the holy words of God, unchanged for 14 centuries, preserved by a miracle for the guidance of mankind.

Then go think.