Aruru debates a strawman and calls me delusional, William is still claiming that I make evidence up (faking the content of dozens of major newspapers is work, Master Timberman) because it undermines his prejudices, Arma actually penetrates to the heart of my argument - not that anyone noticed - and I really have to go do my real job now.

Before you head back to your job (producer for Glenn Beck? Researcher at AEI? Latin professor? Collecting coins while wearing your tinfoil hat and a "Muslims are Coming to Get Us All" sandwich board sign next to the bus stop?), don't forget...

We're all still waiting for that rational explanation of how Islam is taking over America.

We'll see you later, I'm sure. Armed, no doubt with more made-up news stories, more debate terms and Latin expressions that you desperately hope make you sound intelligent, and more irrelevant anecdotes that prove not your point, but the extent of the Islamophobic delusions...

--Aruru

I know this subject makes you quite irrational - we've crossed verbal swords before, Glenninites - but I've yet to post a made up story. Unless of course you think you can point to one:

The story about the Pew Poll, showing 27% of Muslims in America cannot or will not condemn al Qaeda?

The story that American students (Republicans, so it's OK) were charged with desecrating Allah here in the States?

The story that a British city council has banned anything related to pigs in the workspace, including Piglet?

The story about Muslim "students" stopped for bringing explosives near a military base in Oregon?

The story about the Council on American-Islamic Relations being an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land HAMAS federal trial?

The story about the Oregon convert to Islam convicted for trying to establish a Muslim training center in the States?

Go ahead, Aruru, cherry pick anything you like. Your friends at the Religion of Peace will provide a whole new set of headlines in the near future, and you can ignore those too.

Golden Boy

PS Well I knew reference to my job would bring out a) snark at how crappy it must be and b) snark at how I'm a paid agent of some nefarious organization. I won't comment because 1) it is irrelevant 2) you wouldn't believe it (most of you seem to be academics and don't really know how people actually make a living in the world) and 3) if you did believe me, it would just annoy you.

I haven't had time to follow and read every post in this online donnybrook, but has anyone pointed out to Golden Boy the irony of his hero's refusal to pay the slightest bit of attention to the threat posed by al Qaida prior to 9/11? That he, Condi, and the rest of that administration sat on their hands prior to 9/11, despite the previous administration's warnings and outright pleading? Incredibly ironic, if you ask me.

Or even the irony that he cares more about some College Republican group being accused of hate speach, as opposed to being upset that Bush really doesn't give a damn whether bin Laden is ever caught, or not. Really strange priorities. And Ironic. Hypocritical, even.

Why do you confidently post to say that things aren't true, when anyone can look them up and see that they are?

For example, you posted that it is "horsepucky" that sharia courts were proposed in Ontario.

Um, wrong: http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,1569677,00.html.

Because it's, at best, a gross mischaracterisation of what was asked for and what actually happened (from the cite above):

"Rather than allow Muslims to use an officially sanctioned Sharia tribunal to settle civil disputes, the province of Ontario has decided to outlaw all voluntary faith-based arbitrations, including those used by Christians and Jews for more than a decade.

"Ontario had been considering becoming the first jurisdiction in the western world to allow Sharia tribunals to settle marital and other family disputes according to the tenets of Islamic law."

Look, if people want to settle their own disputes under their own terms, it's no skin off my back. And Ontario may have had a good idea in allowing such "courts", or maybe it's a bad idea. YMMV. Certainly Ontario was of mixed opinion.

But to call them "courts" is to dissemble (not to mention even your cited article calls them "tribunal" and not "courts"). To some extent they are more "mediation" (using an agreed-on mediator) than courts. I, if I had lived in Ontario, would not have been beholden to any of them. And Sharia law would have no more legal effect than any contract or court-sanctioned mediation.

In the United States, churches are allowed their own tribunals, and their own procedures, some of which have some legal implications as well (see, e.g. marriage "annulments").

OIW, you, as well as Sh**ter, are simply being dishonest again. Please stop.

Cheers,

You asked "WTF" does the fact that the owner of Your Black Muslim Bakery apparently murdered an African-American investigative reporter have to do with Islam.

Because, amongst the other things I pointed out, Your Black Muslim Bakery hasn't been affiliated with the Nation of Islam for quite some time:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/08/14/ED7VRHQDQ.DTL

And it wasn't the "owner" either.

Are you just stoopid or intentionally obtuse?

Cheers,

You state that the infamous flying imams didn't sue their accusers...

Where did I say that? Oh, yeah, I didn't. Guess we know who has less than a passign acquaintance with facts. Now go bother Freeperville, where they don't care about truth, and appreciate your bigotry far more.

Cheers,

If the name of the column was "The Jews are secretly plotting to rule the world" the cacophony of Saloniks applauding the final disclosure of the One Global Truth about Jewish Dominion over the planet would be deafening.

It's funny and it's sad how little credibility Salon has and even looses, as time goes by.

Islamofaschism is real and exists, it is just not detectable unless one is within an islamic proto state, which is, the family, the clan and the tribe within an islamic country. It works fine for the men as far as the tribe goes, but ask the women and dissenters if you can find any.

Islamofascists can never be a threat in a western country except a few honor killings here and there. The real threat is the coordinated efforts world over to bring back the chalifate, Muslim equivelant of the Pope, which can, and may elevate the tribal level islamofashism to a worldwide super state, lead and organized by a central authorithy capable of declaring cihad whenever the need arises. At the moment , no caliph exists, Ataturk sent him packing to oblivion to the dismay of all islamofashists world over, I have a true feeling that Bin Laden and the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt are no fans of Ataturk, who inspired nationalistic and secular leaders around the world like Cinnah of Pakistan, Shah of Iran and numerous other anti-imperialistic national political movements around north Africa after WWI.

If one is to understand the struggle between radical Islam and modernity, one need to go no further than Turkey, which, at the moment, is a labarotary for this particular contest, and if the seculars in Turkey lose, the Republicans fearful of Islamic takeovers of US may find their arguments some God sent traction.