As I said previously, I think liberal democracies should never bow to any sect, religion or creed. We should not tolerate intolerance, to paraphrase from Popper.

But you have not bridged the gap between making minor capitualtions to extremists (which I do not agree with and which take place mostly in Europe) and being TAKEN OVER by said extremists.

You need to bridge that gap, becasue "today we don't print offensive cartoons, tomorrow we're a giant caliphate" is not an especially convincing argument.

"-- not a theoretical fear but one that is pressing, urgent, at the forefront of their worldview"

GG

I don't believe that, and I hope you don't either. The Muslim Triumph is just a fear based minipulation they use.

You won't find a one of them who has significantly changed anything about their lives in order to lessen the danger.

Not if it would be inconvenient.

The-Muslims-are-coming also serves as a mantra, which they chant in order to reach the nirvana of fear they crave.

They fear the Muslims in the same way the fear Dracula, Frankenstein and Hannibal Lector.

Plus, you can imagine the Muslims killin all your enemies, how fun is that. I gues the Muslims will love them, you know, I bet they would love those guys. Ftom what I've heard they think very much alike.

http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/8237.html?PHPSESSID=c0287a81fd33e65dd225f5612c56320f

From the article:

"The controversy started in October 2006 when the College Republicans sought to hold a rally supporting the Iraq war effort. During the gathering, which the group dubbed an “anti-terrorism rally,” students stepped on the flags of Hezbollah and Hamas, thus angering some Muslim students and liberal members of the SFSU academic community.

As a result of their behavior, the College Republicans were hauled before a university tribunal on charges of harassment and forced to state their case as to why they should not be punished. At this point FIRE intervened, writing SFSU and informing the university that First Amendment rights were in play and the College Republicans could not be punished for engaging in free speech activity. The pleas fell on deaf ears, the trial proceeded and the College Republicans were compelled to defend their speech.

SFSU defended its policy by arguing that the speech in question may have been received negatively by the community and the university needed to show its commitment to the process.

Ellen Griffin, a spokesperson for SFSU, went as far as to tell the San Francisco Chronicle, “The university stands behind this process. I don't believe the complaint is about the desecration of the flag. I believe that the complaint is the desecration of Allah.” FIRE was quick to point out that whether the complaint focused on the flag or the faith, it still targeted constitutionally protected speech.

Despite having the authority to halt the proceedings, SFSU dragged out the trial for five months until finally clearing the students."

So I happily stand by my statement that a public university brought up students on charges that they desecrated Allah. I think that is pretty interesting, as well as the question that few of you are addressing (on why the cartoons that insulted Islam were not republished in the States - and online ain't the same thing.)

As for Mona's comments, it may well be worth talking about how effective Muslims will be at imposing their absurd demands for superiority upon civilized people, but don't you think that we first have to agree that Muslims are doing so in the first place?

All the discussion we've had so far assumes that people become aware of something in the outside world and then react to it emotionally. This is unfortunately backwards. What I think is really happening is that people have an emotional framework which they then shape their world into fitting.

People who are particularly fearful or suspicious are going to be the ones who a: crave the certainty and comfort that comes from splitting the world into good and evil and demanding protection from the latter B: overgeneralize to the point that an appropriate fear of a small group of people who actually wish us harm grows to be a blanket condemnation of a sizable fraction of the world's population.

They're not coming, they're HERE.

Glenn can make a good case that the likelihood of the complete takeover of America by Islamist extremists is unlikely. That it's paranoid. Irrational.

I think the same is true regarding salonistas who claim our constitution is being shredded, due to NSA intercepts of suspected terrorist phone calls.--notorbitboy

There aren't any "salonistas" who claim our constitution is being shredded due to NSA intercepts of suspected terrorist phone calls.

You've left out absolutely everything that is in question on the NSA subject, and you've dropped in one idiotic strawman statement with which to make your "argument".

By the way, Glenn didn't argue that Islam takeover is "unlikely". If he has argued anything at all on that matter he has argued that it is out of the realm of possibility.

The fact is that we all know that Muslims have had a chilling effect on free speech, even here in the States. Someone upthread reminded us all about the cartoons of Mohammend, which almost no newspapers or magazines in the States dared to republish. Why? Answer that one, O Armies of Glenn, rather than asking where the Muslim invasion fleet is.

And you left out Salman Rushdie.

Look, I can't speak for the "Armies of Glenn," but I have blogged in the past that this thuggish intimidation -- sometimes rising to murder -- and basic reliance on terror is a serious problem for free speech in the West. In my view, the Netherlands and other countries need to be more stringent in expecting all immigrants, including Muslims, to assimilate to Enlightenment political values.

But the notion that there are armies of Muslims poised a la Hitler to take over countries, commandeer their governments, and impose Sharia is sheer nonsense. No Caliphate is coming, not anywhere, and certainly not in the United States. They employ terror because that is all they can do! They have no Wehrmacht and Panzer divisions. Let's get real, mmkay?