In any case, the sense that this is just a parlor game and that we can take all the time we need and not get our hands dirty cleaning up the mess is missing the mark, in my opinion.

-- willbhuman

I don't see many posters here saying anything like what you suggest. We don't think of it as a "parlor game". Not at all, in fact. I'll use we for this post because I think what I'm writing will fit in with many of the posters on this site. We find the "parlor game" approach to be that of the opposition. Like that eejit, shooter. He sees it as a parlor game. We don't.

Also, we don't think "we can take all the time we need and not get our hands dirty". I don't know, for example, what you would call what Glenn Greenwald does on this blog. But I would call it working his fingers to the bone to try and get something done as well and as quickly as possible. He is persistent and paced but constantly working towards long and short term goals for the betterment of America's present and future. Many of the posters here are quite clearly also on it like locusts on corn and are working hard to research and pass on what they learn and know to all who are listening.

It seems that you are advocating some kind of more physical and anarchist takeover of some sort. If so, what difference does it make if you try that now or you try that later. No amount of FISA destruction should have any effect on punching people in the nose. Or however it is that you intend to take over power.

Just to be clear, my comments were not directed at Glenn nor were they directed at those who are expressing similar hopelessness.

But there are a fair number of people who talk about incremental change as though we can get the bad guys to operate on a timetable of our choosing. Or that things really aren't so bad that we need to be impolite in our approach. That really, truly if we give them one more chance and say pretty pretty pretty please, they'll understand that gosh darn it, this is kinda important to us.

I'm not advocating punching anyone. I'm saying that even with what we do know (and God only knows what we don't know), that it isn't helpful for any of us to continue deluding ourselves that playing the game according to the old rules (or old beliefs about how things "should" be) has any chance of saving what's left.

If your actual life was on the line right now, this instant, what would you do about it? My guess is (whatever it would be) it would be a hell of a lot more likely to save your ass than waiting for Nancy Pelosi to come to your rescue.

I think that's a lot closer to where we are than many people are willing to accept and that's my point.

Trust me, this short piece by Steve Benen is a must-read:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/016222.php

You won't be sorry-- you'll just wonder...

My intention of this statement was meant to mean that I believe the group should be held responsible for the individuals who caved to these monsters.

That is all I meant.

If I conciously or unconciously adopt a syntax that seems outside of a specif lexicon--then so be it.

Language is power--adopt the enemy's basic rhetorical tools then turn it against them. (and yes I feel they are mortal enemies).

It is this technique that will sway minds and hearts--nothing else.

This is the most fundamental failure of the Democrats dealings with these people. The "be-nice-to-get-along.." thing has got go becaues it has helped this administration go a long way in getting what it wants.

Neocons (let's be specific here) appeal to to the reptiles in us--that primitive kill or be killed model.

What's more--they know it works and are not ashamed to use it...

Please do not extrapolate my use of this biting rhetoric for a desire to pursue actionable criminality, violence, human debasement, and cruelty. That is just stinkin' wrong.

So, I hope that this helps clear things.

Yours in Peace,

Ed

I usually use the preview... [sigh]

She disabled the comments on her Speaker blog. I wonder why. Probably because thousands of people were heading there to do what I went there to do: tell her what a coward she is.

Thanks for this--it has been swimming around my pool lately:

"...but if your internet were cut-off tomorrow in the supposed interest of national security or at the very least subject to explicit monitoring, what would you really do...."

Yes it's alarmist, and almost absurd but look back to pre911 and ask yourself what was alarmist and absurd back then.

Assume this will happen at some point--it's the next next next logical step...it may be as close as the next 911...

I have heard the theory about a "permanent"and hidden government behind a transitory "elected" government. I did not want to believe. I categorized it with the other conspiracy theories as zany as the Illuminati.

But Big Brother is alive and growing, and I fear our ability to even fantasize that we are the freest people on earth has come to an end. How in the world do the democrats even spin such an abhorrent act of treachery?

If your actual life was on the line right now, this instant, what would you do about it? My guess is (whatever it would be) it would be a hell of a lot more likely to save your ass than waiting for Nancy Pelosi to come to your rescue.(my emphasis)

I think that's a lot closer to where we are than many people are willing to accept and that's my point.

-- willbhuman

While I somewhat understand your point, you have again said very similar to the same thing that you said that I addressed before. Your example this time being that we are waiting for Nancy Pelosi to come to our rescue. I don't see it that way at all. Most of us here are at least as aware as you claim to be how dire the situation is. Short of doing what we've been doing and thinking of what more we can do to move things along, I think we are covering or learning how to cover our bases as well as we can.

So, again, you seem to be advocating a punch in the nose. I say that because none of us here are advocating, as you say, 'playing nice' with the scorched earth Republicans. Our methods just don't happen to include literally knocking heads.