For a person to think that most or all Christians are like the Hagee groups would be a mistake as I have found many that are not in any way like these particular folks are.

As one well versed in Dawkins and Shermer and Dennett, I am well aware of the tendency to paint all Religious people as equally misguided but it's both politically inexpedient and logically fallaceous to do so. (My personal view is that the Universe as a whole should be given at least as much credit for being conscious as we give the subset we refer to as Humanity.)

As has been pointed out in this thread already however, that to take a late interpretation of a allegorical story and turn it into a course of political action that includes the wholesale slaughter of innocent people, pretty thoroughly flies in the face of anything that any thinking person could possibly consider sacred.

What exactly is the difference between the view of "radical Islam" that God demands that jihad be waged against Islam's enemies and the views expressed here by Hagee and Lieberman? Or the views of Osama bin Laden that God willed Middle Eastern land to Muslims and therefore can never be negotiated and the Lieberman/Hagee view that God willed it to Israel and can never be negotiated even if it means war?

For one thing, fire power. Thus, the embracers of radical Judeo-Christianity, whether genuine or manipulative, have managed to kill a lot more "infidels" than those who espouse radical Islam.

I suppose that this fact only gives aid and comfort to those who believe that "might makes right" because it is proof of God's Will (what was God's position, I wonder, on the felling of the Twin Towers and the simultaneous deaths of thousands of Americans?), but I would hope that New Testament Christians and progressive Jews would take a look at the body count and rethink the politicians and causes that they support.

Specifically, Democrats whose faith does not support the wholesale slaughter of their fellow man should ask their party to reassess its knee-jerk support of the State of Israel, and they should be wary of any candidate who readily demonizes predominantly Muslim states, such as Iran and Syria, or entities such as Hizbollah.

I would be the first to agree that the leaders of Iran and Syria and Hizbollah are evil doers, but as an American who has lived for six years under the repressive Bush regime and watched my tax dollars spent to commit horrific crimes against humanity, I am not so ready to condemn the innocent citizens/future body counts of other lands.

Please do not fold, spindle or mutilate!

"This is what is espoused in thousands and thousands of churches to literally tens of millions of people every Sunday. These people are not a fringe movement of wackos, this is a mainstream fundamentalist viewpoint over which there is no debate. Virtually all of the largest mainstream fundamentalist Protestant denominations agree with Hagee's and Lieberman's views."

I'm from central Ohio and I agree. This is not only happening in the churches but a lot of it ends up in the Columbus Dispatch, other large Ohio news media and countless smaller community publications who feed us a constant diet of right-wing church propaganda. Rod Parsley, Russell Johnson and their "Patriot Pastors" (this phrase triggers my gag reflex everytime I see it) always seem to have ready access to the media here.

On a more sane note a website I just came across seems to offer some hope:

http://www.jewsonfirst.org/christian_zionists.php

From their 'about us' section of the website:

We launched JewsOnFirst.org in October 2005 because we wanted to oppose the growing strength of the Christian right and the accelerating pace of its theocratic agenda.

Glenn, keep doing your thing and know that there is growing recognition, if not outright opposition, to the promotion of the Christian Zionist propaganda.

Plunk your magic twanger, Froggie.

Ka-chunk, ka-chunk, ka-chunk. (Dog-eared card in the pre-compiler deck. Hurry, hurry, our hour is almost up.)

Ferrite-core memories. Do we dare to eat a peach?

We launched JewsOnFirst.org in October 2005 because we wanted to oppose the growing strength of the Christian right and the accelerating pace of its theocratic agenda.

-- Pedinska

Well, if that's a take on Abbott and Costello's "Who's on First" (which I suppose it must be) that's danged funny. A sense of humor can be very helpful in getting the word out. Congrats to the JewOnFirst crowd.

I'm not planning on dropping every aspect of our Protocols of Global Control. Only the secret aspects of them that are already well known.

Cordially

-Israel Goldmanstein of the 5th International

1. I'm running a "Bible Study for Atheists" at http://bs4a.blogspot.com. We're in Exodus right now, and this book is chock full of often-gratuitous torments levied by YHWH against the non-Hebrew occupants of the Middle East.

In Exodus 15:15, for example, Jehovah's messenger Moses pronounces that "all the inhabitants of Canaan (Israel) shall melt away."

Is this what we should be basing our policies on? As a "(Judeo-)Christian nation," is our mandate to melt away all the Palestinians? Does God give us any leeway on this?

2. I heard Mike Gravel's "explanation" of his health-care plan on Mike Malloy's show. He seemed to be talking nonsense. Ron Paul's libertarian dream for America completely defunds the safety net, eliminating virtually every social program. Yes, they're not de facto crazier than the people who marched us into the Big Muddy, but I'm not sure I want to give them a de facto clean bill of health, either.

Christ, Marx, Wood and Wei,

Led us to this perfect day.

Marx, Wood, Wei and Christ,

All but Wei were sacrificed.

Wood, Wei, Christ and Marx,

Gave us lovely schools and parks.

Wei, Christ, Marx and Wood,

Made us humble, made us good.

Well, if that's a take on Abbott and Costello's "Who's on First" (which I suppose it must be) that's danged funny. A sense of humor can be very helpful in getting the word out. --Kitt

Can't say if that was on their mind when they named the website but humor is one of the best weapons progressives have. And it seems to be in seriously short supply on the other side. If you can get folks laughing then you can, at the very least, get them to listen a little. That's one of the most important reasons Jon Stewart and Colbert are so convincing. Their use of humor to expose the hypocrisy on the right is invaluable because it reaches folks who would never consider reading the more serious takes presented by Glenn, Digby and others whose words deserve at least as much exposure.