I wish to point out that Hagee's and others' notions of "the Rapture" are not held by all Christians by any means. They are doctrines invented in the 19th century by an English millenarian preacher and have gained wide currency among evangelicals, but are utterly foreign to Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and "mainline" (i.e. Episcopal, Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Congregational, and many Baptist) Protestant churches, not to mention the historic peace churches (Anabaptist and Mennonite) and many other churches. If the word "heresy" had not become so debased, it would be the right word to apply to the whole millennarian racket.

Here's what I don't really understand: what Lieberman and Hagee advocate under the guise of being "for Israel" is not good for Israel in any measurable way. It would tend to lead to the largest possible amount of strife both in the hard-line refusal to allow territorial compromise and in the notion of attack on Iran (presumably, at the expense of Israeli soldiers and Palestinian fighters in the first instance, and Israeli and Iranian civilians in the second).

Who is this doing any good for?

Israeli blogger Yossi Gurvitz yesterday advocated for direct communication between Israel and Iran, hoping to draw on the mutual history of positive relations (not during the Shah's regime; Gurvitz is a historian, he was hearkening back to thousands of years of prosperous and mutually beneficial relationship between the Persian/Iranian population and the Jewish population). Someone on his comment thread suggested that a common enemy would make such dialog more likely. Would that common enemy not be the conglomorate of Lieberman, Hagee, and the NeoCons?

Phones ringing off the hook? Phones have hooks? Well, that certainly dates us, doesn't it? I bet we know what carriage returns are, too. Not to mention distributor rotors, linoleum and card catalogs. Time marches on.... :-)

To Ralph Krandem's point about Joe helping people who are praying for the destruction of all Jews as a prelude to the Second Coming: The Hagees think they're using Joe to bring about the Rapture, Holy Joe thinks he's using the Hagees-Rapturites to bring about the Coming of the True Messiah (my memory of the Old Testament is a little fuzzy, I can't say I'm sure what Joe thinks). That's the great thing about being a delusional religious fanatic: You're right, everybody else is wrong, and it's okay to use useful idiots to get what you (and God) want (see Bush, George and Blair, Tony).

On Joe Klein's "I can't imagine voting against him", Very Serious Beltway Denizen Lawrence O'Donnell made the same point on the old Franken show just before the CT primary. He said that in his eighteen years in the Senate, Joe Lieberman had advanced no important cause or movement, had not written or meaningfully sponsored any significant legislation, nor even given a memorable speech with the exception of one about Bill Clinton's sex-life. That said, quoth Larry, it would be a mistake for the voters of CT and bad for the Democratic Party nationally if Joe Lieberman were not re-elected.

(To his credit, he did call for Lieberman to drop out after he lost the primary, but that was such a jaw-droppingly stupid comment, so full of fatuous Beltway self-satisfaction, that I've never forgotten.

Loved reading it - let the fireworks begin...

We can only hope that postings like these lead to some real, public discussion. It seems there are too many taboos.

Joe Lieberman can embrace John Hagee, whose only desire is to see Jesus Christ come down from heaven and send Joe Lieberman, and every other Jew like him, straight to hell where they can suffer unimaginable torments for ever and ever.

Of course, Joe doesn't believe in Jesus, so he may feel a smug sense of security. Comparing Hagee to Moses? GACK.

What if the Koran said that when all the Jews return to Israel, Mohammad would come back and bring paradise-on-earth to all the Muslims and the Jews would then be roasted forever-and-ever in a fire that did not consume them? Would Joe Lieberman embrace Osama bin Laden? Perhaps only if it was politically expedient.

If Al Gore hadn't been so completely incapable of dealing with Clinton having an affair with someone the age of his (Gore's) daughters, then we wouldn't have had to campaign for Lieberman in 2000. I hated doing that. I didn't want a religious nut-case like that anywhere near the White House. I'm not sure he isn't worse than Bush. If only Gore had picked Edwardson...

As parochial, exclusionary, and yes, racist as they often were, the southern preachers of my youth also preached peace, self-reliance, steadfastness in the right whether the cameras were rolling or not, and above all, charity.

The Jews I knew didn't all carry violins, and weren't all doctors and lawyers, but they believed in universal education, fair pay for working men, justice for all citizens, and duty to the community. They built hospitals, libraries, and academies or music and art, supported and were even martyred in the cause of civil rights and of labor, and taught me things no one else could or would teach me at the time.

How did John Hagee and Joseph Lieberman come to represent these two traditions? The answer is that they don't. The hell they're from is real enough, yet a fair analysis of how its gates happen to be open as wide as they are in the present day is, whether we like it or not, an indictment of us all.

Thanks again, Glenn, for trying to shine a bit of light on what we're actually being asked to sanctify.

When will the residents of Connecticut finally realize that Joe Lieberman is the senator from Israel, not Connecticut. If he was forced to choose between a nuclear bomb hitting Connecticut and a nuclear bomb hitting Israel, he would let it destroy Connecticut.

As a resident of Connecticut, this is no surprise to me.--CPerkins

I for one - and probably most of us here - am and was well aware of what you posted about Lieberman. I fought tooth and nail from afar through sites such as FDL to see to it that Lieberman would be defeated. What happened after he won. He was awarded with a standing ovation by the vast majority of the Democratic Senators. Disgusting and disturbing writ large.