Thank God you're here. We're tired of our old neo-con trolls; what a novelty to greet a young, callow one!

Christians for Israel? Is it something in the water in America that makes people put on funny clothes and do strange dances and pretend to be the Israelites? What is it all about? These strange cults are unnerving to say the least. It's interesting how everyone carries on about Scientology but these groups travel under the radar and most Americans are probably unaware of their existence - and yet they have a powerful lobby which some people would say is working against the interests of mainstream Americans.

Pedinska, you said:

[Stewart's and Colbert's] use of humor to expose the hypocrisy on the right is invaluable because it reaches folks who would never consider reading the more serious takes presented by Glenn, Digby and others whose words deserve at least as much exposure.

I wonder if the writers of those shows take some cues from "the more serious takes" you mention. It is hard to imagine those guys nail neocons so well, so often, without some help.

Oh, they get help. From the Rebooblican politicians or from the master himself, Dubya. Believe me, nowadays, these people's shows just write themselves.

Cheers,

Actually, it was Christians in both England and in the U.S., but mainly puritan stock and evangelicals in the U.S. that started calling for a Jewish homeland, before the Jewish Zionist movement, in the mid-1800's. It was then as it is now, the Restorationists wanted the state of Israel with a capital at Jerusalem as precursor to the Second Coming and the Rapture.

Nutso, but not new.

If you're still reading this thread, I'm curious to know what Mr. Pagano wrote that caused you to brand him a "neocon troll."

Sternhell is made of much sterner stuff than you, Brenner and your Soviet handlers, but his views about the nationalist corrosion of Zionist ideals are the views of one historian, and not incidentally far too complex for a sub-moron like you to adduce credibly in debate.

-- John-Paul Pagano

Like that parrot in the Monty Python sketch.

You remind of someone...

I found his comments here pretty obnoxious, so I skimmed the blog linked to his name; he's a privileged former lefty obsessed with liberal anti-semitism and the Muslim menace (where have we heard that before?) To be fair, not a cookie-cutter neocon -- perhaps a Peretz for a new generation?

Oh, and I was in a pretty bad mood, too.

Best wishes.

I found a website that's perfect for ya. I found it on google. It's got more tinfoil in its helmet than you do. You dumb, fucking putz!

http://www.jtf.org/index.htm

"Rev. Hagee.... believes that "Rapture" -- whereby all Christians literally disappear from earth upon the return of Christ, leaving all non-believers to suffer on Earth -- is imminent."

The thing the puzzles about these god-bothering rapture whackos is that they are all dead-set sure that the end will be happening in their lifetime and try to help it along. Does it ever occur to them that the stern, unforgiving, vengeful god that they claim to believe in might not look kindly upon those who presume to dictate or know his timetable?

These are very serious people. Seriously f--ked up.

As is becoming increasingly clear, AIPAC moved the Bush Administration through Wolfowitz to target Al Qaeda through Hussein's Iraq, to have the U.S. do Israel's dirty work while keeping its own hands "clean." No one suspected Bush's Administration could be so inept, incompetent, and remote, so the "walk-through" Iraq to Afghanistan never succeeded, locked in Pandora's Box.

Instead, the (i>Cult of the Suicide Bomber has discovered a superpower weakness; it bends at its AIPAC's knees, prostrating itself in Evangelical Rapture and fervor, and the two Wingnuts "use" each other to advance different agendas. Now the "blame-game" begins in the U.S. and Israel; "the devil made me do it." No. The Campaign Contributions from AIPAC and the Israel Lobby fed your insatiable desire for reelection, compromising everyone's principles for Zionism and Evangelicals. Pelosi, Reid, are just as "in league" as Libermann and Schumer and the Rapture Evangelicals. Hell, Reid's three sons are lobbyists.

The Palestinians and Arabs appear to have caused neurotic paranoia, instead of the Evangelical's Parousia. See you at Mt. Herzl, when the Prophet of god comes down. Like Jerry Falwell, we'll all be dead on the floor, and no rapture to cover our trail, just little signs of Zionism's "experiment" that failed. But who better to play that game, than the three Abrahamic Tribes of Zionism, Evangelicals, and Radical Islam. One man's Yahweh is another's Father and another's Allah. The same tribal deity destroying humanity as he destroyed Sodom and Gommorah, not for the sin of homosexuality, says Jesus, but for inhospitality.

Well, Albert Ellis's death reminds us of his "cures" of the homosexual "pathology." Saint Paul (aka, Saul of Tarsus) reminds of god's hostility to all flesh. And Hitler reminds us of how obnoxious all these fanatics can be, and useful to a new reich in history. Meanwhile, the Palestinian's resentment is getting the upper hand. They have no life, so die killing the infidel invader and occupier. "Which one," we ask? The Zionist with American F-14s, whose WTC we took out while they played in Midland, TX, with a Dupe so bad and inept, only AIPAC and Evangelicals could love him. It's all in the Book of the People, you know. (Sorry, People of the Book.)

Thank God you're here. We're tired of our old neo-con trolls; what a novelty to greet a young, callow one!

-- SomeNYGuy

He's an erstwhile neocon. It depends on which way the democratizing wind is blowing. He reads The New Repulic(an) and we call them neo-liberal globalists. They favor "liberal interventionism" when their neocon handlers tell them to.

Without taking any exception to anything in your post, it is important to stress that we were played by Iran as well, literally. Invading Iraq worked out rather well for them also and no one can suggest that they and Israel were working together. Ahmed Chalabi was long known to be an Iranian asset by our intel services. This is a fact and Ceney et. al. chose to ignore it. If we were played well by the Soviets at times during the Cold War, nothing they ever did compares to how we have been used by Iran and Israel since.

N.B.

This is not tin foil hattery like that spewed by Pagano.

"Dear Pat:

I have been busy working on the Balkans, but wanted to provide some data about Chalabi and Iran.

According to more than half a dozen CIA operatives, including former clandestine DO officials, "Agency people became aware that Chalabi had probably been a long-time agent for Iran," in the words of one. These sources, including Whitley Bruner, say that Chalabi was long ago working for Iran in Lebanon, even before the agency recruited him in 1991 and stuck him in as head of the INC. Bruner said of Chalabi: "He never gave the agency any intel on Iran, never submitted to being debriefed.' adding, "He was Iran’s guy."

Bruner and others claim that Chalabi "wanted to start low-intensity war with Iraq. He hoped we would get sucked in." The plan was that the INC would "appeal to US benefactors and we would rescue our proxies."

Former CIA agent, Bob Baer who went into Kurdistan in 1994, said that Chalabi always came into Kurdistan from Iran, where he had a villa. He said Chalabi was very close to Iranians, and covert operators said IRG folk were often at his house in Salauddin.

The INC was totally penetrated by Iranian and Iraqi agents but the CIA didn't care. Chalabi was never entrusted with any secret operations. He was be the day to day manager of INC which was putting out anti-Saddam gray propaganda. We wanted Saddam to know about the INC just to keep the pressure on him.

In 1996, the CIA was trying to organize a serious attempt to overthrow Saddam using the INA, headed by a former Saddam hit man, Iyad Allawi who had broken with Saddam and walked in to work for MI-6 in the late 1970s. The Brits eventually brought him to the CIA in 1992. Allawi had assets inside Saddam's military but Chalabi betrayed the coup out of jealousy. The INA was the preferred CIA instrument, its intelligence was being checked out by technical means, and its success would have meant the end of Chalabi's funding.

In any case, Chalabi got caught fabricating information and the CIA cut him off. He merely went to the Pentagon and the checks kept coming because his fabricated intelligence on Iraq's WMD was so essential to selling the war, this from a man who had already failed four CIA polygraphs so that the agency had issued a "burn" notice on him by the late 1990s.

In 2004, Chalabi betrayed to Iran the fact the NSA was listening to mail belonging to Iran's Ministry of Intelligence and Security (MOIS). Milt Bearden called me in real distress the day the Iranian channel went off the air.

But Chalabi's real goal was to get rid of the Baathists in Iraq, and get rid of the army. In spite of promises we had made to senior Iraqi military, some of whom facilitated our entry into Iraq in 2003, Bremer, Wolfowitz and Chalabi broke all those promises and the Iraqis joined the insurgency.

All the best,

Richard Sale"

http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2007/05/richard_sale_on.html