Letters to the Editor
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Ineffactual Golden Boy
12 of 20 Muslims believe Arabs did not carry out 9/11
--per poll 28%, or 6 in 20 (error 1)
1 of 20 Muslims will affix their name and address to a statement to a statement saying they favor Al-Qaeda
--no name or address was requested by pollers (error 2)
4 of 20 Muslims in America will refuse to answer whether or not they favor Al-Qaeda, or claim they don't known
--and your point is? What if they are truly don't know (forced choice, error 3)(I mean, the AG can repeatedly state that he didn't know or recall what was happening on his watch, so I am sure ordinary citizens can, also).
These are Golden Boy's interpretation errors for this poll. He refuses to accept that he is misinterpreting the poll, and refuses to think about what his misinterpretations mean. Irrational, perhaps, but it certainly exposes the intellectual weakness of his claims.
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Misinterpretation
He refuses to accept that he is misinterpreting the poll, and refuses to think about what his misinterpretations mean.
Prunes, I think you're wrong. Golden Boy doesn't care what the poll says or means, or whether or not he's misinterpreting it and you can show it. He has found something he can use to "prove" his hatred of Muslims and Islam, and he will keep using it until something else comes along. That's his motive and his goal, to demonize Muslims. He's not really here to argue, just to push his agenda, one way or the other. Whether he's acting alone, or whether he's being paid, is the interesting question.
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Zahed
Zahed, I think you are talking about a different question than I am. I looked at your site and could find no reference to a poll in which non-Muslims were asked if they a favorable opinion of al Qaeda. I assume you are talking about the suicide bombing question, correct? Otherwise, a link would be appreciated. I am seriously neglecting my work today so any labor-saving assistance is nice.
If you think my posts evince desperation, may I suggest that you are misreading them - and me. Glenn highlighted a poll that showed a huge percentage of Muslims in America don't give an unfavorable opinion of al Qaeda when asked. Hundreds of posts later, many of them attacking me, haven't changed that fact one bit. Nor can they.
Nor does it help to say that Muslims are being singled out (the stated purpose of Glenn's post seems to change as letter writers try to find a way to attenuate the damning evidence of the poll.) This is a poll about Muslims. Who, exactly, should be discussed as a result of the poll?
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ALLAH GIVE ME PATIENCE
This is a poll about Muslims. Who, exactly, should be discussed as a result of the poll?
Muslims, but we cannot say anything about whether Muslims are more accepting of violence than other people without looking at some sort of baseline!
That is your main error, and you have not addressed it once, despite having it pointed out to you many times. Do you just not understand, or are you being intentionally dishonest?
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This Isn't An Argument
Golden Boy:
Valentian,
... I maintain that as a valid invocation of "tu quoque", but it really doesn't matter.
Zahed is unconcerned that so many of his co-religionists refuse to condemn an organization that publicly seeks the death of millions of Americans. I think this poll is now focusing attention on what Muslims in America really think.
You can maintain whatever you want. But being all reality-based and what-not, we are not particularly impressed by what you maintain. We are interested in (a) facts and (b) logical arguments. Valentian showed quite clearly why it is not a "tu quoque" argument, and you've said nothing to contradict that demonstration.
Furthermore, you have ludicrously misrepresented the entire situation. Al Qaeda's stated goal is re-establishing the Caliphate. Not something I agree with at all, but a far cry from publicly seeking "the death of millions of Americans." Attacking America on 9/11--however heinous--was an ancilliary act. (And genius that he is, Bush took the bait--hook, line and sinker, and turned bin Laden into the "holy warrior" he previously was only in his wildest dreams.)
Those who know their way around the science of polling know much better than to jumble associations together the way you have. But, then, you already knew that, now didn't you?
Sure you did!
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@Paul Dirks and Anonymous
PD, that was very interesting about the Iraqi Christians. I knew nothing about it. Maybe if most Iraqis were Christians, or if they were white, Americans would care more about them. Or maybe not.
Anonymous (snappy handle by the way), no one here has said that Japan and Germany, as nations, were "victims" of the U.S. and Britain. I (and others) have merely pointed out that Americans have shown an inclination in the past to regard the intentional killing of civilians as appropriate under some circumstances. You, in defending the firebombing of Japanese and German civilians, then illustrated the point. No one believes that the Anglo-American bombing campaigns were the worst thing that happened in WW2. Put away the straw man.
On a personal note, I visited Dresden some years back, and was astonished at how much of it was still rubble. It saddened me to look at pictures of how beautiful it was before the war, and to read about how much the civilians suffered. Perhaps reasonable minds can differ on this, but I didn't think they "deserved it," even after visiting Auschwitz on the same trip.
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Svensker
I agree, I like to reverse bombastic rhetorical statements against those who utter them. Especially like this case, when it's like bullfighting a pug.
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Fraud Guy and Prunes
Prunes,
Didn't I address your question about attacking civilians? Just in case I didn't, here goes: I don't support it. I am opposed to the war in Iraq, just as I was opposed to the war in Bosnia, the intervention in Somalia, the Gulf War I, etc. For such an evil person I really come off as quite the pacifist (although perhaps not very smart). :)
And - don't worry, you are still being nice, and even if you aren't I'll still try to answer your arguments. Just like I do with.....
Svensker,
If you have an argument against the poll, feel free to post it and I'll try to respond. For the record, I'm strictly an amateur, although I recognize that asserting that will not be convincing to anyone inclined to think otherwise.
Fraud Guy,
(1) From the poll itself: "Just four-in-10 say that groups of Arabs engineered the attacks" (page 6). (2) If you look at the Pew poll text, you will see that they asked for a name and address in order to mail a $50 check as compensation for participation. 75% of those who participated agree to provide this. (3) True, the fact that 20% or so of the respondents claimed to not know what the question meant, or to refuse to provide an opinion about al Qaeda, is open to interpretation. This is where intelligent people have to be objective - try it!