Shooter... Zinni said we have to stay...

He is one of the left's prophets is he not?

If Zinni is what Shooter calls a leftist...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Zinni

We can assume that this is a moderate of the right by those standards

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinochet

If I had a nickel for every time I heard that our latest puppet regime in Saigon had finally done the trick, and that if only no one tripped over the hastily-nailed two-by-fours holding them up, they'd be able to smile and wave long enough for us vanish without a trace (Ten-thousand worn-out helicopters and empty PXs didn't count, of course), I certainly wouldn't be typing this on a five-year-old computer, and driving a seventeen-year-old car.

Esteemed Retired General Whoever thinks that Bush and all the little Bushes are incompetent strategists, but that we should stay anyway, only we should be a little smarter and more diplomatic about our staying.

With apologies to those who believe that using curse-words exposes a dearth of ideas, gimme a fucking break....

That conclusion on the part of Middle Easterners is a significant indicator of our foreign policy ineptitude, both diplomatically and strategically.

I disagree, that conclusion is based on the facts, diplomacy can only cover up so much bovine guano before the truth of the matter comes forth.

The fact that the oil ministry and the oil fields were the only things US troops guarded in Iraq immediately following the invasion is pellucidly clear evidence of our true intentions with respect to that country.

The Founders had a good idea -- no entangling alliances, no standing armies, friends/trade with all, enemies with none. It's time for the U.S. to decide whether it will consciously abandon those ideas, or not.

That is an excellent summary of the choice the country faces.

The surge is a tactic, not a strategy, that is being pursued by this administration in the complete absence of a broader middle east strategy and which is therefore destined to fail whether we have 170,000 troops in Iraq or 0.

-- Lisa S

Actually, "the surge" is only a "tactic" in the sense of being a "new brand name" in the PR operation "Catapult the Propaganda" over on the American public. They used to call it "reinforcements" and it usually means you are in trouble.

Glenn,

As you point out only the people advocating continuing and/or escalating this war are the people who initiated it to begin with. And it is quite evident that their perception of events is completely skewed and veers far off from reality. Given the lack of scrutiny into the lead-up, execution and toll of this war, it's been easy for them to avoid any responsbility for this train wreck. However once it’s over the up till now virtually silent MSM will suddenly find its voice and begin non-stop analysis of what went wrong and who is to blame. When this happens it will be difficult for these “war pushers” to continue running away from facing their responsibility for willfully perpetrating the greatest strategic error in the history of this country resulting in the needless and inhumane deaths of tens of thousands of human beings; men, women and children, the morally reprehensible acts of cruelty and torture perpetrated on other human beings, a severely diminished and demoralized United States, both in our resources as well as reputation, clout and standing, the destruction of Iraq, and a continuing civil war threatening to ignite the already combustible tensions in the broader Middle East region.

Despite their less desirable neocon qualities they are still feeling, human beings and the weight of this epic screw-up can be crushing to one’s ego, conscience and reputation. While they unconsciously know they are responsible they will do everything they can to avoid it entering their consciousness and self reflection. Their incentive to keep this war going, rather than see themselves for who they are, should not be underestimated.

Jill

I despair of ever finding an accurate and impartial source of information about Iraq. I didn't favor the war, I'd like to get out with the minimum of further damage, but the answer to how to do that is lost in the mists of partisanship, misinformation and politically motivated articles.

I'm done with spin, from both the left and the right. I'm willing to keep an open mind, just get me some real facts, without the hyperbole.

I'm not one to ever discount the possibility that Bush genuinely believes in his absurd rhetoric, but I have a theory about what the "advisers" around him, who are essentially calling the shots, are thinking.

At this point, I truly do believe that the White House's Surge supporters and speechwriters realize that the War in Iraq is doomed to ultimate failure no matter their efforts. Yes, I'm aware of the lengths to which neoconservatives will go to actually disbelieve reality, but at this point I think the cynical, political, Machiavellian lizard brain in all of them has awakened and dutifully kicked into another mode, though they continue to wear the public face of belief in their crusade.

I think Rove, Cheney, and a handful of other very intelligent and very clever White House power-players have privately accepted the inevitability of disaster in Iraq, and now are demanding the same hope and commitment to that experiment simply to stave off total collapse until someone else (preferably a Democrat) is President.

If Bush cannot be a foreign policy revolutionary causing the unprecedented transformation of the Middle East into a Jeffersonian Eden, then he must be cast instead as a foreign policy revolutionary with a glorious vision that was betrayed by the weak-willed and destroyed by his successor. He will become a political martyr, a subject of crass historical revision even within his lifetime, a tragic hero suffering from the curse of possessing resolve and brilliance far superior to most others. When Iraq falls completely to pieces, his followers will only get louder in their indignation and hatred of Bush's "enemies."

As with all things to these fanatics, protection of the Leader's legacy and the rhetorical purity of his Cause is paramount and easily more important than actual accomplishment of the things he set out to do. That's why I say the one's truly calling the shots realize where Iraq is heading, and have shifted all their energies and efforts into delaying the inevitable in a fashion that best protects the legacy of their Leader and belief system.