PLEASE stop feeding "Sh*t, uh, SHOOTER fer brains"!

The cabal has internalized the belief that PEOPLE VOTED FOR THE SURGE! The Nov. election showed the people wanted GWB to change course. He did. We surged. All True Americans support Dear Leader in these efforts.

I've heard some version of this thesis any number of times. And I think they actually believe their own B.S., which is part of what makes them so dangerous.

I'm not ignoring any of those quotes-Zinni thinks we need to stay, I never denied it. My point was that both he and Sheehan agreed on the much larger point that there must be a broader strategy, without which tactical discussions (ie, how many troops we should have and where) are meaningless.

The only discussion worth having now is whether in the absence of a new strategy, which we won't have until Jan 2009, we ought to delay withdrawal until a coherent one can be implemented (accepting the inevitable deaths of hundreds of Americans and thousands of Iraqis in the interim) or demand a pullout immediately and risk the bloodbath you and the neocons scare us into believing is inevitable.

242 on 4/8/07

“Is it superior to surrender the field of battle while losing? Fundamentalists won't care, they will have won. Meanwhile, the superior intellects haven't come up with anything better to address our problems than "Run Away!". You can put lipstick on the proverbial pig, but it still won't make muslim grocery store clerks in Minnesota scan packages of pork. LOL.”

242 on 4/16/07

“That said, I'm also a big fan of isolationism. Pull all the troops from everywhere.”

I have been highly impressed with the government's ability to portray its lunatic occupation in Iraq as simultaneously having been won, continuing to be won, in danger of being lost, and on the path to victory!

Since there is one, and only one, category of defeat -- and that is if U.S. politicians decide to have the U.S. military leave Iraq -- does that mean that literally nothing can happen in Iraq, ever, as long as U.S. troops are there, which would represent anything other than an improvement and movement toward victory?

Redstate mad lib:

General Sheehan, just like Gens. Zinni, Odom, etc are just disgruntled rejects who got passed over for a [hysterectomy]. Sheehan even voted for a Democrat in [27 BC]. We're better off without them. According to Drudge, Sheehan was forced to [poop] because he was caught Internet chatting with a fourteen year old [unicorn].

Tee-hee, what fun. Now, as a neoconservative, I require more death and destruction. For freedom!

Could you possibly come up with a better name for an American neo-con/authoritarian/facist, than Chaz KrautHammer??

It would seem all the fire of freedom talk has some burnt out.

Redstate mad lib:

General Sheehan, just like Gens. Zinni, Odom, etc are just disgruntled rejects who got passed over for a _____(noun). Sheehan even voted for a Democrat in _____(year). We're better off without them. According to Drudge, Sheehan was forced to _____ (verb) because he was caught Internet chatting with a fourteen year old _____ (noun).

Which one of these quotes from the transcript are you ignoring?

(1)"The second reality is that we cannot simply pull out, as much we may want to. The consequences of a destabilized and chaotic Iraq, sitting in the center of a critical region of the world, could have catastrophic implications."

(2)"I think it’s, it’s clear, though, that we cannot leave the region, we shouldn’t naively think we’re pulling out, that this is Somalia or Vietnam."

(3)"Go down and talk to the Democrats in the, in the Senate and the House,” what would you tell them and what would you tell him?

GEN. ZINNI: Well, I, I would go back to the realities that, that I wrote and you mentioned. Let’s face it, we’re not going to pull out. We can’t continue to go it alone, And we can’t continue to go it the way we are doing this now. We need to redesign a strategy."

I'd say that cements my observation that Zinni says stay, doesn't it? That said, I'm also a big fan of isolationism. Pull all the troops from everywhere. It will....

* Eliminate all US combat casualties

* Save so much money we can pay off all the US debt

* The world will love us for getting out of their business.

It is the best of all possible outcomes.

We may have to wait until 2008 for any meaningful action

That's probably true, but that does not mean that (a) there should be no demands that action occur prior to that, and (b) that it is acceptable (even if it's inevitable) that things will simply stay the same for the next two years.

I detest the Iraq war as much as anyone, but I think it's unrealistic to believe that one election, wherein the Democrats attained only a small majority, is going to fundamentally change the dynamics in Washington.

Changes of control of even one house of Congress are extremely rare occurrences in Washington. Changes in control of both Houses are rarer still. Democrats picked up 31 House seats, defeated 5 GOP incumbent Senators, took a large number of GOP-held Governorships, and changed control of 4 GOP-held state legislatures.

By contrast, Republicans did not defeat a single incumbent Congressional Democrat or Democratic Governor, only the second time in our history that one major party failed to defeat an incumbant. The 2006 election results were historic in many ways, and its significance should not be minimized.

I hear many of my fellow liberal/leftists constantly repeating the idea that "the public spoke in 2006" as if that were the only vote that actually counted. But didn't the public speak in 2002 and 2004 as well, and didn't they essentially vote for war? And isn't two-thirds of the Senate still represented by those elections?

Recent public opinion counts more than historic public opinion. The views of Americans in 2006 regarding the war are, for reasons too obvious to require explanation, more significant than their views in 2002 or 2004.

Individual elections can be the beginning of a trend (1932) or they can be an aberration (1976); it's difficult to argue that a single off-year election is anything but a point-in-time reflection of the public's mood.

Polls reflect, and have long reflected that Americans are opposed to the war, believe they were deliberately deceived into supporting it, and believe the costs outweigh the benefits. This is hardly some type of aberrational or sudden development.