This discussion is not about conservatism or liberalism, but a fringe sect of right wing authoritarianism. The confusion lies in the fact many contemporary RWAs call themselves conservatives. Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Charles Krauthaumer, Dinesh DiSouza et al are not conservatives. Barry Goldwater, William F. Buckley and Nelson Rockefellor would hardly recognize them and certainly would disdain them for their ideology.

Oddly, this cabal of authoritarian imperialistic extremism masquerading as a conservative ideology does not overtly express its disdain for the conservative cause the way left wing ideologues attacked their liberal brethren.

Maybe it was the temperment, but people like Herbert Marcuse, Che Guevera, Leon Trotsky et al, were more than happy to denounce their liberal brethren as weak or morally depraved. RWA's probably do this in secret, which explains how moderate Republicans have been made so cowed.

Yet, the Krauthaumers who see Iraq as a plum that must be picked, the D'Souza's who believe it must be kept for its importance to our national interests (read oil), and the Tom Delays who believe anyone who doesn't believe in their ideology is an enemy who must be destroyed at all costs without forgiveness (read if you must his book). These are people who worship absolutes. Conservatism stands for principles but never feared testing them and knew when to defend them. That is considerably different from suppressing all dissent at all costs.

Liberalism is not afraid of conflict or battle. Every liberal principle and freedom we now enjoy came at a great struggle and much cost spanning three centuries. The world's most apacolyptic war of the modern world was waged and won by one of the most liberal democracies and ideologies on the planet. Only to have the RWA's the McCarthys to come in and knife the wounded during Truman's presidency.

We are liberals on this site debating conservatives. Yet what we have not distinguished nor succeeded in pointing out is that the people Glenn Greenwald is talking about are not conservatives and those who are, or who may have honest issues with our liberal beliefs are supporting people who are not their friends, but thier enemies; fascists. No conservative or liberal would look four years after a disasterous war based on false premises and still demand blind loyalty to the truth of its cause-not unless you are Germany or Japan in 1944.

One of the many admirable traits of liberalism was its power to reject the more absurd and threatening notions of extremism that sought to undermine principle of individual liberty to an all knowing all powerful state. For example, we libs are all for kicking in our tax dollars for a jointly managed universal health care plan, we just don't want the worst plan of the most corrupt greedy regime of demogouges shoving it down our throat.

What amazes me is why conservatives let themselves be pushed around by these chickenhawks prattling about in their brownshirts or flightsuits and making empty threats. The internet records a million bytes of liberals challenging extremism. When will we see conservatives standing up to those who pretend to be their own but exploiting them for the worst of purposes.

It's not the moderate liberal we should be demanding, but the moderate conservative. Judging by the early returns on the GOP candidate trail no one should hold their breath.

Bamage,

Thanks for your appreciation. There is indeed an online RWA self-test. It's in chapter one of "The Authoritarians," Altemeyer's online book in PDF form available here:

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

While you're at it, you might want to read the book, as well!

Define winner and loser. Would the winner be praying to Mecca five times a day? Like I say, the only unilateral way to peace is surrender. Is that what you have in mind as a winning strategy?

There's that old canard again. Scooter (and any others of the uninformed out there), Islam does indeed mean "submission," as has been pointed out by friends of yours.

But it's not your submission they are interested in, as Muslims. It's THEIRS. (Wish you could say the same about Christians and salvation.)

Someday we'll have a real public education system in this country again.

PR - enjoyed your posts @ MyDD. Sorry if I've missed the reference to it, but do you have an url for self-assessment on Altemeyer's scale?

Bill Clinton declared war on Iraq??!!

Did the Germans also bomb Pearl Harbor?

Restricting admission to campaign rallies to "true believers" is RWA.

Surrounding oneself only with loyal sycophants is RWA.

Purging attorneys not zealously dedicated to using their position to pursue the party ideology is RWA

Abrogating fundamental and Constitutional liberties and protections in the name of protecting the fatherland is RWA.

Engaging in wars of opportunity is RWA.

Claiming a divine right of presidency that answers only to God and not the American people is RWA.

Demanding Microsoft open its code to discourage monopoly and promote competition is not RWA.

Got it, yet?

"So let's see if I have this straight....."

Funny. You've never gotten it straight so far, why start now?

http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/g/b085ee55-6bc6-4bf7-88fe-6ac899607d46

Or http://tinyurl.com/2wbtax if that doesn't work

Greenwald's point about doublethink reminded me a TownHall post by Dean Barnett a few weeks back. Turns out those of us who opposed the war from the first and now want the US to get out have no concern for Iraqi lives, even if we may have used the threats to Iraqis as part of our argument against this debacle from the first. But when an advocate of the war like Charles Krauthammer tells us that Iraqis 'chose Civil war' and there's nothing we could do about it, he's apparently expressing a higher moral concern. The current situation was entirely predictable given the religious divisions that Saddam had long manipulated. Recognizing that beforehand showed 'racism' on our parts for not joining in the dream that every military action by the US brings flowers, candy, democracy and joy to the hearts of the world. Recognizing it now is defeatism, unless of course you're one of 'America's finest columnists' blaming the victims.