The conservative movement is pretty good at that.

Let's see:

- Conservative movement takes off as backlash to Vietnam antiwar movement

- Nixon is forced to step down when his authoritarian tactics come to light

- The more moderate Gerald Ford is president

- Jimmy Carter, possibly the most liberal president is elected. His presidency is torn to pieces by both the Republicans and Democrats (many of whom became neoconservatives.)

-Reagan is elected, and we have the most hawkish administration in US history. The administration rolls back civil liberties. The administration is tainted by the scandal of illegally funding a covert war, but Reagan is not impeached

- The Vice President, the more moderate Bush (41) becomes president

- Clinton, more liberal than Bush, but more centrist than Carter is elected

-presidency goes ok, country is better off economically than it was during Reagan era (which is why Bush lost in the first place, because of the squeeze on the middle class) but Clinton is impeached ... because he lied in a civil deposition ... about oral sex

-Bush (43) is elected, the most hawkish administration in US history. The Bush administration rolls back civil liberties. The people involved with Iran-Contra are back ... even at least one individual who had been found criminal for his involvement (but was pardoned by Bush 41).

- Bush 43 is unpopular. Its likely that a Democrat will be elected in '08. Hillary Clinton is one of the forerunners....

You know, those that don't learn from their mistakes and what not...

What will I accomplish if I say I think your both wrong??

While Raj is right that things are getting better and we'll accomplish the most by working within the system, mbf is right that what we are fighting is a powerful organized movement that we ignore at our peril.

What really make ME feel like we're beating our head against the wall, is that the establishment media has so skewed its viewpoint that it now appears that a solid majority of our countrymen are now officially moonbats!

That's what we have to fight hard and thats the short version of what service Glenn provides.

No go back and take your meds like a good paranoid delusional boy.

Along with Michelle Goldberg, Chris Hedges, Joe Conason, Chalmers Johnson, and Kevin Phillips.

Kevin Phillips is the craziest of all. He's never right. About anything.

The more people that understand that, the better. -- m.b.f.

Absolutely. Which is why, I take it, you and I and Raj are contributing here. The worst may happen despite our best efforts, but here we are nevertheless.

O'Reilly et al. may have stolen a march on us, but the dialectic is the dialectic after all. It'll continue in the broader sense even if some moron does decide to nuke someone. If not, I'll take my chances in battle with the O'Reillys, the Donahues and Dobsons, the Limbaughs and Malkins . I actually can't wait until they try stoning some good Christian for adultery -- even here in AZ, that'd get 'em burnt at the stake before sundown.

I think the biggest problem that faces this country is the relentless ass-kissing of our military by all sides. It's stupid and dangerous.

I found it amazing that he had no problem buying into the idea that the commentary was "sick & vile", and that he dutifully repeated the canard about the left being filled with hate. It was as though the last 12 years of right wing blogs, Matt Drudge, Rush Gasbag, O'Reilly never happened, and that they and their ilk have not spilled gallons of vitriol into the public discourse. Quoting the Asian Ann Coulter is especially ironic, since the next time she allows that her ideological opponents have a reasoned though different view of public policy will be the first time.

And why is there NO mention of the ongoing hateful drivel that flows from the yaps of Hannity, Coulter and the rest? Writing for an mainstream "liberal" paper must be killing him slowly. While we can agree that wishing the VP dead is a bit much, how many similar offhand remarks are overlooked when they are spewed by the right wing noise chamber about any & all liberal politicians, and their ultimate bete-noir, Bill Clinton?

What will I accomplish if I say I think your both wrong??

You would probably be speaking for a lot of people.

Kurtz is a tool. No doubt. And lazy.

Kids, and THAT'S why he's a respected journalist! :-)

As a matter of strategy, then, attack him when the underlying issue is one that makes the other side look bad.

Otherwise, it looks to all the world like you are trying to shift the debate and defend the indefensible.

And, even while you are scoring points on Kurtz, you are allowing the other side to score points on you. The decision goes to them on the points. After all, the right is just as vocal as the left about media bias. Those complaints largely cancel each other out. All that is left, then, is the incident that sparked the debate. And it's a loser for us.

Oops. Silly me. I forgot that political discourse is just a basketball game (That must be why fans are expected to root for the "home team" even if the players are just doing some Harlem Globetrotter style showmanship trying to run out the clock instead of actually scoring.) Also you should replace "just as vocal as" with "WAY more vocal then", which is sort of why people like Greenwald need to exist in the first place, since punditry, is based the position of "repeat any old nonsense as much as possible as long as it's LOUD enough. That's how 'truth' is made." (hence the fake Lincoln quote from a few weeks before.) They don't "cancel" each other out in that respect because only one (rather dishonest) voice is heard through the mainstream channels. We have to fight to make our voices heard. That's why The right-wing smear machine and their MSM lackeys are trying to cut the "netroots" at the knees now. THAT'S what got people responding. Is that this ISN'T really about random commentors cheering about a persons death (As mentioned earlier that happens all the time on the net about various people and usually ISN'T worth even bringing up.) It's to slow down a potential liberal movement that's going full steam ahead. Complaints can't "cancel each other out" if they are not even on the same page.