Nick,

In terms of how to rebut, I think now that we know the rhetorical device, we need to face it head on. Rather than fight against the constant 'framing' of issues by liars, we need to call them on their own frames. If they say "appeasement" then we need to call them not just on North Korea and Iran but also why are they appeasing Saudi Arabia? This is precisely how they divide the left.

We need to take a phrase like "But I thought you said X" and use it again and again to point out the phony catch phrases.

When Bush says 'no fuzzy numbers' you don't defend Gore's numbers, you ask for Bush's and then say "wait a minute, I thought you said no fuzzy numbers." This is how they attack Gore- "I thought you said the environment was important, but you drive a car and have a furnace. Hypocrite!" This is highly effective for them even though we all know Gore is actually committed to this cause. Why can't it be effective against Bush when we know he is not, for instance, committed to New Orleans. Don't call him a liar, take him at his word and ask how he's living up to it. Take his best, most revered and Churchillian soundbites at face value and force his defenders to defend his actions as consistent with them. "I thought you said..."

When people point to Libya as a diplomatic success ask why Quadaffi gets a free pass and keeps his terrorist regime? "I thought you said terrorist dictators couldn't be trusted to keep their word. Is that not true?" Make them defend Quadaffi and the House of Saud they way they wanted the left to defend Saddam. Kim Jong Il. Pakistan. Don't point out their hypocricy, simply ask them to explain how they're being consistent with the rhetoric they spew to their base. Tough job.

When Bush says surge ask him if that means the Rumsfield doctrine has failed. When he says no then ask him if his leadership has failed. When he says no ask him why he's scapegoating the men in uniform. This might just work because it happens to be obviously true.

Ditto Kurtz. He said this calling for the death of the VP is outrageous, period. He is so right. Can he please tell us all about death wishes and the blogoshpere? Please Howie, write MORE about this subject. Either he lies worse or he writes more honestly.

The doctrine of the people in power now is to never admit they were wrong and never claim to have changed their minds about what's right. This is their achilles heel and this is the route to discredit this brand of politics. They contradict themselves and then flat out deny it. Since the media has no memory, the best weapon is to simply ask were they were being honest before they started lying, or were they lying before they started being honest. They report, you decide.

This is essentially what Glenn does, and why we are attracted to this blog. The best weapon against a liar is to take the lies at face value and expose them to sunlight. Don't reframe, repeat.

Glenn,

You recently highlighted how Joshua Goldberg tarnished the reporter of the Walter Reed story and how he relied on an anonymous email to conclude that there were no serious problems at Walter Reed.

Is Goldberg now outraged that a general has been scapegoated over this story?

Just a small appreciation

I found your posts today, including but by no means limited to a great response to David on the Iran issue, really insightful and inspirational. In fact you may have incited me to write overmuch. If so it is obviously your fault. Thanks for the cover. =:-)

As Arne says,

Cheers!

Thanks for engaging on this topic. It seems to me that this – after you boil away all the impurities and extraneous gunk – is the crux of what we are battling on every front, and once we best learn how to negate its power and effectiveness only then can things improve.

I understand exactly what you are saying needs to be done, to hold these empty jokers to their words over and over again, but even assuming we somehow got the press back on the side of doing its job and asking/answering such questions along with us, the bottom line is the great majority of people frankly are tuned out and don’t care. What they remember is the original slander, and everything after us just yakity yak he/she said, details, explanations, etc. … boring and convoluted. Emotional gut- (or lower) level lies, distortions, and name-calling is what resonates, and once you move on to the next stage of that story, people are already on to the next thing. Those now in power and on the right know this – that’s why they don’t care about the follow-up or us pressing them. All they need to do is repeat their talking points and lies, and in the end I go talk to folks I know and hear about how Saddam flew planes into the towers and how liberals are weak and just spend and hate America– reality is not a concern.

Even assuming such battling back works, there are two depressing results: (1) We get smeared along with the offending right wingers – the public doesn’t discern – all political folks are corrupt and scum in their mind – they all do it is the common refrain; and (2) The average person has been conditioned to believe base power and authoritarian behavior is “better” and “stronger” than thinking, pragmatic and logical behavior (the hallmark of enlightened progressiveness) , so while we might win in the short-term, soon it comes back around. All I remember is the hangover after Watergate when Carter was in power, and how people’s craving for a strong and fatherly leader to just “take care” of them – even someone as hollow and stagecraft as Reagan – carried us to the next conservative wave.

I don’t want this to sound negative – being progressive, I am eternally optimistic things will work out. But nothing is going to change until people’s perceptions of this country and what strength and leadership really is change, too. And it starts not only at home but in the schools and the teaching of civics … a place that the conservatives smartly focused on starting in the ‘80s when they started advancing their agenda in textbooks and school presentations (leading the alarming number of rabid wingers in their 20s that I see these days – scary and appalling). We need to do a better job early on so people are receptive and engaged to enlightened thinking. I hope we succeed.