That in the end the Federal government will cut its losses by declaring an end to both programs, at least for a several years period. Right when the largest number of people qualify for it. Seriously, if were born between 1956 and 1961 you will be cut out. Period. And the Obamanauts will declare it a great victory for the People and the Motherland.

Is a return to a pay-as-we-need system for social security.

I agree in theory with the idea that collecting excess to pay down the national debt in order to later, borrow the shortfall needed around 2018, would keep costs low. But only if we didn't go on a spending spree and borrow even more in the duration.

But the reality has been (except for a couple of years under Clinton) that the Social Security surplus, the monies collected from people who pay the payroll tax in excess of what is paid to collectors of SS, has been used by the government as a slush fund, a cash cow, a masker of our actual deficit.

So until the surplus is set aside and not spent, or the government states how the trillion plus (and much more if it continues this way) will be paid back to the fund, we need to stop handing over a surplus to them.

If we (working people) continue to pay more than necessary and the government continues to use it as a slush fund, no one in the government will get excited until the trip point is reached and it is no longer a cash cow.

Then what?

Will we have to pay higher taxes to pay back that surplus?

The people working since 1983-84, who paid the surplus and essentially were overtaxed during those years, should not have to be taxed again to pay back the surplus. Reducing the payouts will help but again - isn't that a punishment for those who paid that surplus all these years? The trillions in surplus would have pushed out the "trip" point another decade as least.

Yo! Washington! (1) start setting aside those surplus billions a year starting right now - don't touch it anymore and/or (2) state the plan NOW for how that surplus borrowed to hide tax cuts and military spending etc is going to be paid back - without hitting the same people who paid the surplus to begin with.

(and yeah - medicaire is the big bugaboo right now)

I found an interesting proposal for using the free market to lower healthcare costs: http://higgsblogon.blogspot.com/2008/10/healthcare-and-art-of-motorcycle.html

Being born in 1965, the government in my workaday lifetime has twice lifted the retirement age "a little bit", so it's 70 for me now, 65 for those a few years older. Keep raising it "a little bit" and it will soon eclipse my life expectancy "a little bit".

Social security is a Ponzi scheme, and it's discouraging to read accounts from those who had the reins that don't address that fact. There's is also an implication of a "Social Security lockbox", which is a myth--the funds go into and out of the general budget. The entitlements and the taxes have no actual tie that binds.

The entitlements and the taxes have no actual tie that binds

That is part of what needs to change - or just go back to a pay as you go system. The government has to stop using SS as slush fund.

The current discussions seem to be leaving out any public plan or Medicare buy-in options. Without competition from the government big Pharma and the insurance companies will continue to have their way with congress and the American people. Right now they purchase congress' votes with enormous campaign contributions then proceed to increase the cost of health care through the inefficiencies of their operations and the overhead of executive salaries and investor dividends.

Big Pharma wastes our money with television adds which are not permitted in the rest of the world. Medicare is forbidden to negotiate drug pricing thanks to the past administration - Canada and the rest of the world do negotiate prices. It is only American citizens that are forbidden this "free market" practice.

The insurance companies are pure overhead. Their concern is profit for investors and executives. They do not provide health care but they do decide what treatment we can get.

Health care will always cost money but that money should go to the people that actually provide the services required.

Medicare is a problem, eh?

The insurance industry, HMOs, the pharmaceutical industry, Hospitals and Doctors are not gouging NEARLY enough to be perceived as a problem by you.

Medicare!

AAAAIIIIIIEEEEEEEE!

Someone, gasp, save, pant, us, drool, from, groan, SOCILIZED MEDICINE!

/tundercrack, tidal wave, meteor strike, zombie attack and then Celine Dion starts to sing . . .

got a problem there with Soc. Sec. and Medicare? want to keep talking about(without pissing off to many healthcare lobbyists) or you want to fix it?

line up all the pigs, (the scumbag politicians would be in the front row) and take away all their benefits. they get the same benefits as the unemployed. cobra that you swine!

now the next time they right laws about retirement and healthcare, they would be mandated to right them for everybody--group benefits plan for the US. no perks, no executive plans, Joe6Pack gets the same thing the pres. gets.

tired of living in a country where healthcare and social programs are run like the "justice" system, ie., how much can you afford?

Medicare is in deep trouble but not mainly because of increasing medical costs. It's problem is that it only covers that portion of the population that requires both a lot of care and care that costs a great deal. That's easy to fix. Just allow medicare to provide it's coverage to all ages of our nation's population that are wiling(or their employers are willing) to pay current Medicare prices for 80% coverage. Balancing medicare's current coverage numbers with an equal number of the 18 to 35 age group will quickly put medicare in the black. So, in the bargaining for cheaper more universal health care,Medicare should be made the government's provider for all ages, As a sop for private insurers, Medicare's treatment costs should become the standard for private insurers. This will allow the private sector to compete reasonably well with Medicare.Public and private insurers working together would help a great deal in reversing the cost trends of health care.