It is unfortunate that Mr. Friedman is depending on the money of Mr. Thiel. This allows Michael Lind to throw them together, add in inane Rick Perry and thus stifle a potential worthwhile discussion about the concepts of the libertarian movement. Despite Thiel’s idiocies about women and body conservation, as well as Patri’s hostility to democracy, the latter is holding up a mirror we should take time and effort to look into.

First of all, let us dismiss all the intellectual laziness and dishonesty about them being the spine of the Republican party or them suddenly discovering their opposition to government. If you think it is not worthwhile to read the original source, that’s your decision. But then, don’t pontificate about “them”. In that you are no better than all the wingnuts I use to battle on Townhall. If Salon is to reinforce your beloved prejudices and not to get your gray matter into overdrive, you are as useless as some constant "conservative" companions here: just spitting out inanities bare of content.

The Manichean urge to divide things into “bad and evil”, “black and white” is no improvement when it comes from the left. Quite to the contrary, intellectual laziness by progressives will enable the Cheney and Palin people in the Republican party not only to control their party but winning the elections in the future.

You might want to remember that Patri’s positions are incompatible with that of big government social conservatives. On civil liberties I would urge you to close ranks with them. Glenn Greenwald was astute enough to do so on drug decriminalization.

The phantasizing on seasteading clouds a very real problem in politics: It is what people call “path-dependency”, i.e. the fact that even if you cared to, you cannot start from scratch. In my country, we cannot change our health care system to socialized medicine or single payer because there are so many established “rights” that all sorts of pressure groups and even the courts inhibit “change we can believe in”. More often than not, politicians sell the illusion that somehow path dependency will go away.

Also, the idea to establish a competition between models of self governance, i.e. each seastead against the other is worthwhile to pursue as a thought experiment. We humans are small tribe’s people and ill equipped to interact in the millions, remember “it takes a village?” What are alternative ways? How do we warrant that politics become a matter of the “polis” again, how do we foster people’s commitment? I would hold that organizing neighbourhood groups – using Alinsky’s concept – could be a good starting point.

See, what I mean? Here are people who do not blather about "Obambi", "Obumba", "anti-American", "Muslim" etc. pp. They offer their view on solutions to real problems, not imagined ones.

Also, it is easy to sing with the choir and laugh about their economics but try to refute Hayek and his discussion of the role of the Federal Reserve in the Big Depression. I still think he is wrong but he’s a tough nut to crack. Same goes for Patri's granddaddy.

I hold that Patri is putting his fingers into some of the shortcomings of social democracy, and it hurts because there are no easy refutations.

They put valuable questions. Their solutions are somewhat strange but they are admirable in their consistency, and at least they think.

Thus, for all of you so quick in condemning: go back and read the original, not Michael’s caricature.

Freud called.

They argue their points badly, but you should at least mention acknowldege that in many cases---e.g. the Deep South of the twentieth century, the Sudetenland in 1938, and California the day Prop. 8 passed, democracry has in fact been a tool against human freedom. Anyone who believes in freedom should know that many times your collective neighbours are the biggest drag on it of all....

Thiel has evidently been sucking on too many Galtoids ("the curiously boring breath-mint"), making the blinkered mistake that fails to note just how much he owes to collectivist and statist institutions, but that is unremarkable in a rich man, and his views on the suffrage are not popular in libertarian circles regardless. Can you say 'libertarian macho flash'?

And I daresay that there are many libertarians who would mock Friedman for putting the platform in the Bay, if that in fact is what he's proposing. Most immediately assume that international waters would be necessary, in order not to immediately provoke government.

More importantly:

Spare us the snark about immortalism. As a good atheist, I can tell you that we are composed of matter and governed by the rules governing its movement, just as Epicurus said. This means that our matter can be arranged as precisely as we are able to and wish to do. We have no essential telos that demands that we must die any time soon, we are merely set up that way by everything that has come before us and not clever enough to prevent it...yet.

Given that most of us wish to continue to live as well as we can as long as we can, and that there are no other lifetimes in which to do so, it makes perfect sense to try to do make this one last. I doubt even a wacko (at least in public) like Thiel would believe that this would be easy, or necessarily possible within our lifetimes...but I can assure you that it won't happen if we don't try. And "all" (heh) it takes is to live in non-deteriorating enough shape long enough for the next result that can extend your life....

Or do you wish to align yourself with those conservatives who believe that, given that this is a Fallen World, everything we want in the material universe is bad? There is a puritanical strain on the Left that irks this Leftist; why free the workers from authority and work if they can't then do as they will?

If this seems unrealistic, consider how much longer and better we already can live (even if, unfortunately, most of us don't do) compared with even the richest and most powerful of times past. Laugh at anyone who wants immortality who's stupid about it, just as you might especially at those on the Left who harm our cause by being stupid about it, but *sob* "LEAVE LIFE-EXTENSION QUA LIFE-EXTENSION ALOOOONE!!!!"