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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
zeitgeister-- this is not about anti-Israeli sentiments, it is about the monstrosity of war, of innocents being slaughtered.
That did it, it's obvious you hate Jews and want a Jew-free world. Just ask Xanthro or any of his pals and they will tell you.
-- ForgetItAlready
The problem is the monstrosity of war argument only raises its head when Jews are involved.
Within the last 3 days, Hamas has shot 70 Fatah members in the legs, and murdered others. This according to Hamas.
Not a peep of sound or protest, when someone deliberately targets and shots an unarmed Palestinian because the person shooting isn't Jewish.
When Jewish children are killed by rockets, which are designed to be indiscriminatory, there's a resounding silence about the death, but a chorus of, "the poor Arabs were forced to do this, big bad Jews control everything" it's sickening.
Gaza is a very populated place, Israel has been using attacks that limit civilian casualties, but according to people posting here, it might as well be a deliberate attempt to kill as many civilians as possible. I've seen rolling barrage, and genocide used.
Applying some special powers to Jews, such as the ability to magically prevent civilian deaths when attacking people firing rockets from civilian areas, is a form of Jew hating.
I'm saddened when a civilian in Gaza is killed, the same as I'm saddened when a civilian in Israel is killed. That's the difference here, many of the posters don't care about Jewish deaths, and really don't care about Islamic deaths either, except it can be used to fuel anti-Jewish rhetoric.
The Zeek account of how Jews were treated under Muslim rule is accurate to a degree, but leaves out a couple of crucial points: first of all, the restrictions were not Jewish specific, they applied to Christians too. Christians & Jews, as Peoples of the Book, were not supposed to face forced conversion (unlike say Zoastrians or Hindus), but they did have to pay extra taxes, deal with a different court system, etc. The Christian and Jewish populations in Palestine, outside of the Crusading period, were treated pretty much the same. (The crusaders were no great friends of the jews, to put it mildly; and after the Muslim reconquest, the Christian population faced a degree of retribution that the Jews escaped.)
Secondly, we are talking about 1300 years of history here, wherein there were a lot of ups and downs. There were periods where there was no noticeable discrimination at all; there were periods when intolerance flared. Generally speaking, the Ottoman Empire, which was extraordinarily ethnically diverse, was, compared to most other multi-ethnic states through history, pretty good at maintaining a fairly harmonious community.
That started to change with the Young Turks, under whose rule Arabs (including Muslim, Christian, and Jews, yes back then the Jews living in Arab areas were regarded as being Arabs) were extensively distrusted and generally mistreated. In Palestine specifically, Arab-Jewish relations remained fairly harmonious up until about the 1920s, when Jewish immigration had become a much more prominent feature, and the Jewish community had pretty much stopped being identified and self identifying as Arab.
Steele The First there is no such thing as a "Jewish" race. Jews marry Jews, so it stays in the gene pool.
That in itself is a race as much as anything. While one can make the case that there are no races genetically, we usually refer to a culture as a race. Culture being defined as a group history, religion and familiar relation.
Jews have that, they are as much a race as Arabs or Japanese. It's also why Palestinians are now a race, they share a unique history.
It occurs in non-Jews too, unless you define "Jew" as someone who is able to get Tay-Sachs, then the definition is circular.
It occurs in non-Jews because they have Jewish blood. Not all Jews always marry inside their community.
If anything, Tay-Sachs is a good example of how Jews are so insular (elitist and racist) and refuse to integrate into other cultures.
Heart of the Jew hater. Arguing that that Jews are racist if they don't assimilate and lose their own unique identify, then go and deny that very same identity.
So now we have your own admission that you find Jews elitist and racist, so we written proof of your Jew hatred.
Rationality and historical facts have no place in this discussion. Please confine your comments to substance-free invective for anyone who disagrees with you. Thanks!
Yes, I do find most Jews elitist and racist. You can label me whatever you want, but that is what I see, and I know who I am. I am not an anti-Semite, I am not a Jew hater, and I wish violence and discrimination against no one. That is EXACTLY WHY I say that most of the Jews I see in the world today are racist and elitist.
So fuckin' sue me.
the point is that no modern person would voluntarily live under even a "benign" form of
second class citizenship and the difference between what jews under arab rule today would face and the treatment of arabs in israel is obvious to any rational honest person.
Actually western women do convert to Islam from time to time and women are indeed second class citizens in the Muslim societies of which I'm aware.
I think such women should have their heads examined but it is their choice to do such a foolish thing and I would not interfere with that choice.
The problem is the monstrosity of war argument only raises its head when Jews are involved.
I guess you missed the millions of people demonstrating against the US invasion of Iraq?
The great majority of people against Israel's actions toward the Palestinians are also against the US occupation of Iraq.
And, coincidentally enough, the majority of people that feel positively about Israel's treatment of the Palestinians are also positive about the US occupation of Iraq.
is that Israeli culture and the Israeli society are incredibly racist, which ties in directly to their militarism, colonialism and virtually orgasmic joy at labeling most of the entire world as anti-semites. Anyone who has spend some time in Israel, as opposed of going over on an organized propaganda tour, will pick up on this fairly soon. Black basketball players laying professionally in israel are looked at as prize monkeys. Arabs, including Israeli born citizens are considered to be sub-human:the k-12 grade schools are segregated and an Arab trying to get accepted to an israeli university has a slim chance of getting in. An Arab man dating a Jewish woman puts his life at risk. Another manifestation of how racist the Israeli society is can be found at the infamous West Bank check-points. Even those who accept the security justification for the check=points, would be horrified at the sadistic and humiliating manner Palestinians are often treated when attempting to go through them.
Much of the initial coverage about Fort Hood turned out to be wrong. Is there anything wrong with that?
The accountability imposed by another country for the CIA's kidnapping and torture reveals much about our own.
Fox News' morning show plays to type, talking about whether Muslims in the Army should face "special debriefings"
The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right are making to genocide
Once seen as a lunatic fringe, reactionary anti-women groups are courting respectability
Salon headlines in your mailbox
