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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
no Jew has ever lived as a full citizen in an Islamic society
Are Arabs and Jews *completely* equal in Israel today?
Unless one is completely equal then one is not really a "full citizen".
Whether or not the Israeli action is justified, the more pertinent question is will it be effective? (As evidenced in the posts here, anyone can come up with a justification for their position.) By effective, I mean increasing the likelihood of longterm peace and stability and acceptance of Israel.
Military dominance by a superior force guarantees continuation of asymmetric warfare by the weaker side. It also fuels radicalism which drowns out moderate voices. Were I Israel, I'd be extremely concerned about the spread of nuclear know-how (Iran, Libya, Syria, Pakistan). That genie is out of the bottle and only spreading.
The only longterm chance for peace I see is an integrated single state. When Iran, Hezbollah, Syria get the bomb, they would have a much harder time nuking a country with a mixed Israeli-Palestinian population.
Hamas was elected because the only other option was the grossly incompetent and corrupt Fatah. A recent poll shows 72% of Gazans desire peace with Israel:
http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3456145,00.html
There is potential for a peace. We just need courage on all sides to confront militarism. International support for nonviolent Palestinian parties and an end to the Israeli blockade would be a good start.
You must always temper support of brutal crimes committed by a foreign government by including and stressing things such as "moderation" and "centrism" to make your civilized argument about supporting barbarism more palatable to the ignorant and uninformed.
"Israel is A-OK in my book because I'm into moderatation, and that makes it all good!"
for the forseeable future no Jew will be able to live like a human being in an Arab or Moslem dominated society and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that could have been done in the past 50 or 100 years that would have changed that.
First come the talking points, the usual stuff, right to self-defense, "what would you do?", Israel is a Democracy, etc. etc.
Actually, that didn't happen.
If you don't fall for that, in comes pointing fingers at Egypt, the Palestinians, whoever.
The only issue I brought up with Egypt is your hypocrisy concerning them, which you still self-righteously refuse to answer, as if that's an answer in itself. It's not.
If that doesn't work, the "If you are not pro-Israel then you are pro-Hamas, pro-terrorist", "with us or against", divide and conquer
Again, you lie. I said nothing of the sort, the closest I came to anything like that was that I reversed your own statement to show you, again, how hypocritical you are.
Sooner or later, American History re: Native Americans and Blacks will come into play, as well as how evil Christians are.
OK, Nostradamus, what's after that?
At any time throw in "Jew hating" and antisemitism to bolster the argument, it will come either immediately or eventually.
You simply invented that from whole cloth. I said nothing of the sort.
And that is how you make a pro-Israel debate out of anything remotely critical of Israel.
Or, you can ignore what the other person says completely and simply display your own projections of what they say, then lie about it later. That's what I'm used to, so congrats!
But it's coming. That's the point. You are at the "if you are not pro-Israel you are pro-Hamas" stage of your argument.
the only real risk that nuclear weapons pose is that someone who is not, or who believes that they are not, subject to retaliation will acquire one.
Xanthro --Seriously, ever hear of Tay-Sachs disease? Please explain to me how a religion can cause a genetic disorder?
I dunno what yer talkin 'bout.
That would be a no then. Tay-Sachs is a genetic disorder that occurs almost exclusively among Jews. So, please explain how a religion can cause a genetic disorder? The answer is it can't.
Xanthro -- Do you know that the last name Cohen indicates a priest, and to this day DNA testing shows a close family relationship among Cohen's around the World?
Says who, the Cohens?
Says who, as in whether the Cohen are priests, or says who that DNA testing indicates family relationship?
By tradition Cohanim (plural of Cohen) are direct descendants of Aaron brother of Moses. It's also a patrilineal line, when most Jewish traditional is matrilineal.
The Y chromosome is also patrilineal (naturally), if Cohen did in fact share a common male ancestor, they should also share a Y - haplotype. Testing indicates that they do, in fact, it's named the Cohen Modal Hapoltype or (CMH). Over 90% of Jews with the last name of Cohen share the CMH marker.
In fact, you can even have yourself tested to see if you share the marker. While it's far more rare outside the Cohanim, it's not entirely absent. Which would make sense, any children ever sired by anyone with the marker and outside of marriage would have the marker. I'm sure some Jews commit adultery, even the priestly class.
Take it up with Dr Sands, he wrote the book, not me.
So, when you quote Hitler, I should take it up with him, instead of with you for?
You quoted it, thus you are claiming its truth.
Xanthro--BTW, do you think a naturalized American is somehow less an American than someone born American? If not, why does this double standard apply to Jews?
What are you talking about? What double standard? If you are asking me if I think Americans born here should set up checkpoints, shut off electricity, and poison the water of Native American reservations, then bomb and invade them when they retaliate with violence, my answer is "No." Is that the double standard you were referring to?
The double standard that somehow you think a converted Jew is less than a real Jew. Yet, I doubt you'd list a naturalized American as less American than one born in the USA.
Much of the initial coverage about Fort Hood turned out to be wrong. Is there anything wrong with that?
The accountability imposed by another country for the CIA's kidnapping and torture reveals much about our own.
Fox News' morning show plays to type, talking about whether Muslims in the Army should face "special debriefings"
The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right are making to genocide
Once seen as a lunatic fringe, reactionary anti-women groups are courting respectability
Salon headlines in your mailbox
