That took longer than expected.

they will also never allow themselves to become a minority by absorbing the west bank or gaza and giving the residents the vote.

You misunderstand, about 1/4 of Israeli citizens are Arabs and their birth rate is far higher than that of Jewish Israelis.

The demographic problem will come about with no need of the residents of Gaza or the West Bank, the only Jewish group with a birthrate similar to that of the Arab Israelis are the Ultra Orthodox and they are fairly small percentage of the population.

they certainly aren't going to speed things up by making it happen in 10 years OR by opening the west bank to hamas rocket bases.

My next question

According to the movie Exodus, the Arabs and the Jews then living in Palestine after WW2 got along fine with one another until various remaining Nazis instigated Holocaust denial and attacks by the Arabs on the Jews. Is this true?

-- Fallonius

After WWII, relations between Arabs and Jews were at their lowest. Historically, both groups got along reasonably well, but Jews were certainly second class citizens during most of this period. This was mainly because of Islamic leadership, and relations among the populace was usually peaceful.

During the mid to late 1800s, more and more Jews moved to Israel and started buying land and turning what was at that time a desert into a productive region. This in turn attracted many Arabs to move to the area.

In fact, the majority of both Arabs and Jews living there date their arrival to after 1860. There are exceptions to both sides, since Jews have been there for around 3,000 years, and some Arabs for over 1,000.

The area was ruled by the Ottoman empire at the time, and during WWI, Arab nationalism was aroused by the Allies in order to get them to revolt against the Ottomans. At the same time, Jews were promised the area of what is now Israel, Gaza, the West Bank and Jordan as a homeland.

So now, you had to nationalism movements competing at the same time, and partially over the same area. This is really where relations turned bad.

Jews were murdered in Hebron and those that survived were forced out, feelings hardened, and after WWII, Israel was attacked by her neighbors and they were defeated.

Since then, relations have gotten even worse.

Jews remember when they were only allowed to the seven step of the Temple of Patriarchs, and weren't allowed access to the Western Wall. Arabs remember not being allowed back into their homes.

Neither side really trusts the other, and this allows a minority of people on both sides who don't want peace to block most peace attempts.

and until TRUE Islamic political AND CULTUAL secularism exists this wouldn't even be theoretically possible.

You cannot count on one side maintaining technological superiority over the other. The Soviets used to have ICBMs when we didn't and a little effort changed that.

Now anyone can buy a GPS locater and you can buy remote control toy helicopters, planes, dragonflies and bats at any radio shack or gadget store.

Remember those remote control model airplanes that Saddam was threatening the security of the USA with? How would you like for Palestinians to take what is cheap and plentiful and weaponise it?

Push them hard and long enough and you may have a bunch of kids playing real video game war with game consoles modified to control toys. IDF soldier gets taken out by a 50 dollar toy with a needle attached to its nose?

Want to motivate the Palestinians by killing even more of them?

Amateur genetic engineering is also a popular hobby now? You really want to convince people that they have to wage war against you to survive?

Do you really want to demand payback from your victims?

Right now, 50 bucks and a hypodermic needle filled with something deadly and you have your own personal cruise missile of death. Far more effective for kids fighting soldiers rather than slingshots, rocks and molotov cocktails.

How many Palestinians are reading this?

How many of them have 50 bucks?

What if someone spent some real money?

GORT in the new TDTESS - how about a computer controlling a swarm of a couple of hundred small toy aircraft each with a payload? We already have the software - it is in the games. We already have the platforms - your children play with them. All we need is a GPS, a small video camera and a computer chip to put them all together and change the face of warfare.

WE ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES WHO CAN DO THAT.

Convince people to put out the effort and make war a little more hellish and a little more balanced. Humans are really good at that. Israel and America have no monopoly on the tools and craft of war.

Making toys into tools of war is something that our targets can learn from us. I thought those tiny UAVs were a bad idea because they are something that our enemies can too easily copy and mass produce.

Whenever you decide to do something evil to someone, keep in mind, payback is a universal desire.

true but the Israelis will have 50 years longer to design some sort of system which will allow them to live i.e have control even with an Arab majority

That doesn't sound err... democratic.

In fact it sounds rather like Apartheid, an ethnic majority being ruled by an ethnic minority.

I was under the impression that Israel being a democracy was one of the major selling points.

I grew up under our own Apartheid system here in the US, it was horrendous, and I'm fish-belly white.

Apparently in your mind the only Israelis are the Jewish ones, Arabs don't count even if they are Israeli citizens.

It's like I've never been involved in a conversation like this before, like yesterday.

First come the talking points, the usual stuff, right to self-defense, "what would you do?", Israel is a Democracy, etc. etc.

If you don't fall for that, in comes pointing fingers at Egypt, the Palestinians, whoever.

If that doesn't work, the "If you are not pro-Israel then you are pro-Hamas, pro-terrorist", "with us or against", divide and conquer, "double standard" claims.

Sooner or later, American History re: Native Americans and Blacks will come into play, as well as how evil Christians are.

At any time throw in "Jew hating" and antisemitism to bolster the argument, it will come either immediately or eventually.

And that is how you make a pro-Israel debate out of anything remotely critical of Israel.