Letters posted here are associated with the following article:

61
Letters
Saturday, November 22, 2008 12:00 AM

Tuning out the brain-dead megaphone

Pundits claim we're a center-right nation -- but polls show voters elected Obama to enact his progressive agenda.

The letters thread is now closed.

View:
Monday, November 24, 2008 05:48 AM

It's tough not to see the truth in the $15 statement if you haven't lived it.

Yeah, it probably is. I lived in the UK for ten years, so I've 'lived it', though.

It's simple - the American healthcare system deliberately and systematically excludes the people who are most likely to get sick: poor people, minorities, those with chronic or congenital problems, old people. But even ignoring that, making people worry about the cost, even those with coverage, dissuades people who *are* sick from going to the doctor. It means that conditions that could have been treated early and cheaply (or prevented altogether) become expensive medical emergencies.

The 'free' model probably does have people going to the doctor more often - just as, in the US, 'people who have health insurance' go to the doctor more often. If the system changed, there would be a surge in uptake that would need to be managed - when the NHS was introduced in the UK, millions of people tried to get dental and eye care straight away. There are ways of managing this that every practice already uses.

It is better to have a system where a few people who aren't all that sick go to see the doctor than one where people who are sick don't.

No system is perfect. But any sane healthcare system, surely, has to start by looking out how sick the patient is, not how much cash they've brought along.

Sunday, November 23, 2008 03:13 PM

@ palindromebeta

It's tough not to see the truth in the $15 statement if you haven't lived it.

I was in the military for a quarter century and the military emergency rooms were always packed with people who had the "sniffles".

Making health care free inundates the health care system with the folks who lack common sense. If you have a cold, drink lots of fluids, get rest and eat healthy food....duh!!!!

But because it was free, dependents and some of the less sturdy military members would go to the "free" health care hoping to get some free meds. This made the military health care system far less effective than the civilian side of the house...I could tell you some horrific stories about military health care -- but you might have already heard about Walter Reed...

Sunday, November 23, 2008 02:42 PM

brain-dead megaphone indeed

Ever scan the wires or MSM headlines? Try it unplugged.

There’s sublimated tribal aggression comfortably constructed as “politics”, “sports” or “country”.

There’s antisociality and Social Dominance Orientation usefully constructed as “success” and “political ideology”.

There’s sexual repression, aggression and control constructed as shock at this week’s “out-of-control” starlet.

There’s the pathological expression of male-male competition constructed as “economic news”.

And then there are the rips in the matrix, appearing as “Gunman shoots ______ in ________” or “Church leaders scramble to address charges of sexual abuse” or “Leading authority on _____ admits taking _____ from ______” or “Wall Street ______ indicted on charges of _____”, or “Presidential pardons expected for _______.”

Open up the tired eyes.

Awake from the dream.

Sunday, November 23, 2008 01:38 PM

Oh I get it

Sirota thinks we're a "progressive" nation -- he must have drawn that conclusion after CALEEFORNIA voted against gay marriage...

Cognitively dissonant much?

Sunday, November 23, 2008 12:32 PM

Many folks who wouldn't pay a $15 office call to see a doctor for a cold, were quick to go when it was almost free.

Yeah ... having a system where sick people don't go to be treated isn't a particularly good system. They might not have gone to the doctor, but they might have ended up skipping a day at work. Or going to work and making other people sick. Total cost of that course of action = more than $15. Result: it would have been better if they'd been to the doctor.

Having a population that's healthy and a healthcare system that emphasises prevention and early detection makes for a better society, and is more efficient than the alternative.

Sunday, November 23, 2008 12:14 PM

What planet do you live on, David?

Obama pissed-off progressives when he walked away from his commitment to limit the influence of lobbyists, the bedrock principle for the restoration of democracy.

He then shocked progressives with his vote to renew FISA with telecom immunity intact, democracy slipping still further.

Right here on Salon, Joan Walsh reminded us that Obama has always been a "centrist," but what does she know?

Hillary Clinton, Joe Lieberman and Rahm Emanuel are all what they proudly proclaimed as "New Democrats"; i.e., "moderates," as they pushed NAFTA. Bill Clinton ran as a "New Democrat." Remember, it wasn't Reagan who buried "The Welfare State."

And don't hold your breath waiting on universal health care and the end of Middle Eastern military adventurism. That baby got drowned in the bath back when Grover Norquest's second generation friends -- the Cheney/Bush Administration -- drowned government in $11-trillion of debt.

Please, you're going to sit here and tell us that Obama is a "progressive"? You must have been hanging out with Markos Moulitsas in Austin at "Netroots" the weekend he was singing the "progressive" Hallelujah Chorus while Obama was voting in favor of FISA. If I didn't know better I'd accuse you of being part of the "conservative" propaganda machine that tried to convince American that Obama is a "Socialist." That was a laugh. Or that he is the most "liberal" member of the Senate? A real knee slapping guffaw.

But I doubt you are a collaborator. Rather, I think you are either just ignorant of political science or you haven't yet figured out you've been bamboozled. I guess we're going to have to draw a line of continuum on Professor Know-It-All's infamous 3-D-BB for you to explain that "the centerpoint" in America is far to the conservative right in terms of absolutes rather than the American relative positions you seem bogged-down within.

BTW, what are YOU if not a "pundit"? You're making me nauseas. "Conservative pundits" aren't the ones saying this country is "center right" and that Obama is in bed with them. It's us progressives! Geeze, talk about "brain dead." You're not going to sell any books this way, David. You first have to know what you're talking about.

Once again we are reminded here, "It's not the name of the thing that matters; it's what the name of the thing is called." -- "Through the Looking Glass"

Sunday, November 23, 2008 11:43 AM

Universal Healthcare

I wouldn't get too dogmatic about why health care costs are so high. Those of us who were adults for many years prior to Medicare recall quite reasonable medical costs and low insurance premiums. If you graph this you'll find that costs climbed as Medicare took over.

We had a fixed medical plant/hospitals. doctors. When Medicare became law the demand for the services doubled. Many folks who wouldn't pay a $15 office call to see a doctor for a cold, were quick to go when it was almost free.

If we can devise a system that cuts down the bureaucracy and paper work, controls the levels at which malpractice suits are filed, it might be a doable system. But when an OB/GYN has a $36,000 year insurance premium, it will be passed on to the patient or their payor. Drug companies double the price of drugs, in part, to defend lawsuits and wild jury verdicts.

Most Active Letters Threads

405

I'm thankful I'm not President Obama

Backers deride Katrina-style negligence, haters hate him more each day. Can this presidency be saved? Of course
323

Tough-guy John Bolton, hiding under his bed

As usual, right-wing pseudo-warriors are drowning in extreme cowardice.
320

Greg Craig and Obama's worsening civil liberties record

A new Time account of the fall of Obama's White House counsel sheds much light on rule of law issues.
228

A key British official reminds us of the forgotten anthrax attack

A vast array of establishment and expert sources do not believe this episode was really resolved.
154

Phil Carter's resignation from key detainee policy post

Many of the "War on Terror" policies he spent years condemning were ones expressly embraced by Obama.

View all »

Letters Help

Currently in Salon