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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
(Brand Y still asking why ask why...)
hee hee hee
semi-seriously (that's as good as it gets folks), who cares ? ? ?
ho ho ho
is there some requirement that both labels have some objective criteria that we must all follow, chairman lind ? ? ?
ha ha ha
personally, i have preferred 'progressive' since before 'liberal' was successfully demonized (due in NO SMALL PART to the wimpy simpery of dem'rats/etc), for the very reason #w-h-a-t-e-v-e-r he cites as being a detriment: the root word progress...
ak ak ak
i don't think *most* people will do the mostly academic deconstructions, historical allusions, and conclusions lucky lindy hops to in order to now demonize 'progressive'...
boo Boo BOO
taken on its face, the term 'progress' would certainly be viewed by 99.99% of the nekkid apes as a 'good thing', *WHATEVER* their personal version/vison of 'progress' is...
this that the other
(just like, um, other intangibles like, um, i don't know, 'hope', and, um, like, 'change'...)
believe believe still believe ?
progressive, liberal, six of one, half dozen of the other...
mox nix y'all
besides, i'm eclectic, i sometimes share views of my reichwing brothers and sisters who have been much more LEGITIMATELY concerned for a LONG time over consitutional rights OF ALL SORTS (including posse comitatus) being threatened, abrogated, or simply signing-statemented out of existence...
secret secret secret
as drawn to charismatic authoritarians/big daddy figures as konservatives might be, theroretically, they are opposed to the imperial/executive presidency that has gone on unchecked by the other two branches (not to mention media complacency)...
complicit compliant coopted
you babbling babbits are behind the curve on the REAL gummint threats and debasing of constitional rights that has been going on for a long time with full dem'rat/rethug 'bipartisanship'...
right reich richtig
art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
Since the 60s, in the circles where I hang out, "liberal" has never been a term of respect. Of course it's not nasty like "reactionary" and "conservative." Here's how we have always distinguished between the two:
Liberals believe in democratic capitalism and progressives have a class analysis. Liberals think change comes from electing liberal politicians, while progressives work both within and outside the system building social movements. Liberals seek solutions to crisis situations as they arise; progressives operate out of an ideology based on the idea that all aspects of social reality are inter-connected, so real progress requires fundamental change.
An example? Liberals might work to ensure that health insurance companies cannot exclude people because of pre-existing conditions. Progressives organize to replace the present (absurd) system with state provision of health care for all.
Sue, author
Thanks But No Thanks: The Voter's Guide to Sarah Palin
When I think of the term liberal, this Phil Ochs song, adapted by Jello Biafra comes to mind. One verse and the chorus...
I go to pro-choice rallies
Recycle my cans and jars
I'll honk if you love the Dead
Hope those funny grunge bands become stars
But don't talk about revolution
That's going a little bit too far
So love me, love me, love me
I'm a liberal
I've always thought liberal was the watered down, centrist portion of the left. It's interesting to hear the term progressive as it was used by the likes of Clinton. I must say, that's the reverse of my perception. It's a label the right has built up quite a negative brand around and that the left finds too wussy itself...
Semantically, it may be more appropriate, but I do also see the point that being "liberal" is too easily associated with liberal use of drugs, liberal spending of taxpayer money, etc. As a democrat in my ealy 30s, the only reason I have ever identified with "liberal" is in reaction to conservative attacks on the label...
With a minimal amount of Googling for the term "Classical Liberalism", one can learn that liberalism corresponds with increased personal freedom, increased economic freedom, J.S. Mill's "On Liberty", and the concept of "That which governs best, governs least". Michael Lind should have known this.
The government that Obama is about to inherit will have little connection to classical liberalism, and much to do with feudalism and mercantilism. Read a week's worth of economic or political journalism from the UK, where Liberalism is still used in its original sense.
So if the Statists are looking for a new term to defile, I hope that they'll leave "liberal" to the libertarians, and continue to call themselves Progressives. Or Statists. Or BiPartisans. Or money-flushers. Or bailouters. Or sheep.
...is that liberals or progressives take time to sit around and think about "what" they actually are whereas conservatives and their base go out and do things. There is no intellectual debate about whether or not someone can be called a conservative, they don't care how they are seen. They just act on what they believe. And yet, even after the American have so strongly rejected the conservative philosophy for now, mostly because its not conservative at all, you want to have this debate? Who cares? If you are more interested in what others think when you describe yourself as something in a blog or letter to your newspaper editor, then you're not that interested in politics. You're more interested in some sort of weird self-preservation. Go some balls already.
not normally a 'me tooer' or 'attaboy/grrl' poster, but...
jc miller, what an incredible distillation of a terrific point, just wonderfully, succinctly put... magnificent, thank you...
jkk (and some others) made numerous excellent points which agree with my view, therefore they must be brilliant *AND* beautiful, as well as smell irresistable ! ! !
in short, the dem'rats not only ALLOWED the demonization of 'liberal' to happen over time, they PARTICIPATED in it: *besides* NOT really being 'liberal'/'progressive' in very many meaningful ways, they RAN AWAY FROM those labels, thus SHOWING they thought these words (if not positions) shameful and suspect...
art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
Attached is a link to a blog post I wrote in September: "I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal."
Time to redefine the term through real things, through positive action and integrity of principle. Public perception of the term will gradually change, not through marketing-style quibbling, but through the public seeing "liberal/progressive" principles in action to help people and strengthen our country. Act, and the term's meaning will follow along.
Much of the initial coverage about Fort Hood turned out to be wrong. Is there anything wrong with that?
The accountability imposed by another country for the CIA's kidnapping and torture reveals much about our own.
Fox News' morning show plays to type, talking about whether Muslims in the Army should face "special debriefings"
219 Democrats and one Republican join in favor of the legislation, which passed by a narrow margin
The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right are making to genocide
Salon headlines in your mailbox
