Letters to the Editor
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Creating a Palestinian State
You make many good points but the fact remains: The israelis need to leave and return the occupied territories immediately....and take their airport and military with them. Too bad if the people in the settlements don't like it. They should never have been there in the first place. Why pretend they are not the oppressers here? The Palestinians need their own state...or is it a one way street for the Israelis?
Fair is fair. The world is watching.
geegee
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Out of the territories, and then what?
People, what do you think the wall is for? So Israel can police on both sides of it? That's the point of the article, that Israel is withdrawing inside its own borders, disengaging with the Arabs and leaving them to make their own Crazystan. Yes, the settlements are terrible, and they should go. But when Israel does pull out of the territories, do you really think that all will be well with the Palestinians? They'll slaughter each other in the name of Allah, and STILL blame the Jews.
And one more thing. You know why we always think you're anti-semitic? Because you have so much to say about Israel's errors, and so little to say about everyone else's. Africa is full of repressive dictators. Asia, too. And let's not pretend that there is a country in the middle east that isn't engaged in repressing one minority or another, not to mention women. But who gets UN censure? Which of you is laboring for reparations from Yemen, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Egypt and Lebanon for the 800,000 Jews who were pushed out in the past fifty years? Of course, we took care of our own people. We didn't park them in refugee camps for two generations as a political tool.
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Yes exactly
A Juden Free 'Israel' is the only solution.
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The unholy cost of the current Mideast holocaust
Let's peruse some recent arguments:
"Rather than engage in arguments over which side—Israelis or Palestinians—is morally superior..."
So morality doesn't matter? That's like choosing to overlook the morality of the Wehrmacht vs. Jews fight in Warsaw during the 1940s.
How can one NOT see imbalances?
Israel is a nuclear-weapons-protected modern state funded by BILLIONS of American dollars. Palestine is a non-state comprised of abjectly poor people illegally removed from their homeland. Pretending the Israel/Palestine conflict is balanced is like saying the German army vs. Jews was a "fair fight."
How can one miss the moral imbalance? How can one ignore military-economic-geographic-etc. imbalances?
"...the terrorism routinely employed by Hamas, Fatah, and Hezbullah against Israelis"
ROUTINELY? Another blatant lie!
Israel repeatedly raids, terrorizes and kills unarmed, stateless, impoverished Arabs. The kill rate alone says it all: Overwhelmingly Jews kill Arabs.
What do Arabs (illegally occupied, with an internationally recognized right to resist) do? They fire home-made rockets that are little more than coffee cans with fins. Those "terror" weapons kill about 2 Israelis per year (versus 700+ Palestinians killed by the IDF)
"The stated, explicit goal of more than one Palestinian political organization is to destroy all Jews"
Another lie. They just want to remove the current anti-Arab REGIMES in Israel and elsewhere.
Did America want to kill "all Germans" when removing the Berlin Wall (thus reuniting the 2 Germanys)...or just end Soviet-led tyranny?
Israel is run by nutburgers who think everyone is out to kill them. They feel free to kill others at-will based on national paranoia. Just like hitlerburgers did in 1930s Germany.
>Palestinians would do well to drop the "death to Israel" plank
Learn to read and comprehend. "Removing Israel" no more kills Jews than removing the USSR killed all Soviets.
>As for the existence of Israel as a Jewish state ...
Like, er, South Africa as a White state?
> I don't wish to undo the existence of Israel.
Some didn't want to undo the apartheid South African state (or Third Reich), either.
>And I don't really understand those who do.
Hmmm. One doesn't understand why people might want to end a racist theocracy?
Go figger.
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Learn to read and comprehend. "Removing Israel" no more kills Jews than removing the USSR killed all Soviets
Actually it probably does, at any rate Israelis think it does and if Israel is "removed" by force it will remove as many of it's enemies as possible before it goes, which will be quite a few. The Arabs/Persians may "win" but there may not be much left.
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The Wrong of Return, the Right of Winning
Israel has been a reluctant conqueror, a conqueror with a bad conscience. Hence their insistence on 5000 year old property rights based upon their own religious books which was somehow supposed to make the Arabs pack up and leave like some squatters. Hence their resistance for even admitting being conquerors of the land. They believed and tried to spread the myth that they were just old neighbors moving back into the neighborhood. When the inhabitants protested, the Jews, a nation of Rodney Kings, exlaimed "Why can't we just all get along?"
Israel’s existence is based on the notion of the Right of Return, an idea that is subversive for 2 reasons: (1) It is either claimed to be exclusive to the Jews, using the “Chosen People” argument, which is obviously unacceptable for just about any other party and will lead to strife and discord; or (2) it is not claimed to be exclusive and in that case dozens of peoples suddenly have claims to countries and returns, which will also lead to chaos.
Over 5 years ago, on a different bulletin board, yours truly wrote these passages (way before Ahmadinejad came to power - did he read the Soapbox?) :
>>>It would have been eminently fair to punish the Germans by forcing them to give up their best lands for the Jews. A Jewish state in western Germany, wedged between Benelux and Deutschland, would have been the ultimate triumph of reason and fairness. Backed by ironclad and mutually accepted treaties among cultured Europeans, by now Jewland would have become one of the richest countries on the earth, speaking Yiddish, writing with the Latin alphabet, relatively secular and very intelligent, unencumbered in its scientific and technical enterprises by being in one of the safest places on earth, i.e. in the middle of Europe, unlike today when it has to struggle for its survival day after day, whipping up religious fundamentlism amongst the coreligionists of one of the most aggressive and backward religions of today, igniting wars after wars.
One of the vilest ironies of the 20th century was how the Final Solution was eventually accomplished by the Brits and the French, sitting on their high horse, antisemitic as anyone can be, but exuding phony humanitarianism, while fueling the fire of Jewish fundamentalism knowing well that it will make the Jews leave Europe for good and ON THEIR OWN WILL this time, in fact teary eyed, crawling on hands and feet if necessary just to kiss the parched desert of the "promised land". <<<
Israel was a crafty idea, a beautiful flower designed to bear poisonous fruits, planted by the disintegrating British Empire, playing its usual "divide and conquer" game in an age when it could only divide but had no strength left to conquer. Now the fruit has been borne and the poison has been spreading for decades - it is Muslim radicalism and the growing reaction against it in the world.
Now yet another “Peace Summit” is under way, it is hard to see why it would work out any differently from previous such efforts. Peace between warring parties is usually achieved when one decisively wins the battle and it has not happened.
The Arab world is simply too big to be crushed by Israel, not even with the constant US financial aid. The Arabs, despite being huge, are too weak to crush Israel. The result is an ingrained, sick conflict which has been the source of most of the trouble in the world (aside from Africa) in the past 50 years.
Peace with the current situation codified would be a winner's peace. Of course Israel wants peace and and points fingers when the Arabs reject it: bad, bad Arabs. But Isreal is a phoney winner, it did not win on its own accord, it did not come and conquer but it lawyered itself into Palestine. As such it is not in the position to dictate peace so it can only plead for peace and appeal to its protectors.
But why would the Arabs (and now their extension, the Muslims of the world) accept peace? What kind of a precedent would that set? That a document of a different religion + European imperialism + a decree by unelected members of an international body has the right to change borders? Well, of course, it has been happening for centuries, on a might-makes-right basis, and the creation of Israel is only one of the examples but why would the Muslims accept it?
At any rate, no matter how just or unjust was the establishment of Israel cca 50 years ago, it is now a legitimate entity involved in a struggle that has spilled out into the global sphere, including into ours. We have to take sides. I vote for siding with Israel, not because I think it has any more right to exist than any Arab state, but becase the Arabs have royally screwed up their credibility as reasonable people, by sacrificing the Palestinians so as to “Keep the Cause Alive”, by their inabilty to wrestle their political life from their religion, by their stone age mentality in many areas of life, by their rejection or science and technology, by their religious zealotry.
What “siding with Israel” might mean, I can’t define exactly. Obviously the goal would be to strengthen Israel, while weaken the Muslims, enough so the Jews can win the long battle conclusively, following which they could force, then enforce, a peace with their defeated enemies. Maybe wars like our current one with Iraq that somehow, maybe, hopefully, will create an enlightened Arab state, can mean the blueprint for an alternate solution. Because otherwise at some point some really drastic solution will have to be contemplated against an intolerably aggressive Muslim world.