Actually, Kelly, I rely on the experts in Congress to count the votes and they say that we have the votes in the House and are doing quite well in the Senate. As I'm sure you know, there are lots of ways to get this legislation passed - it can be an up or down vote, and if McConnell filibusters, we got 60 votes on the hate crimes bill, and that's all we need to break the filibuster. As for Bush's veto, which you didn't mention, he threatened a veto on the hate crimes bill, but not on ENDA, which is quite telling. And in any case, if he does veto, we can add the legislation on to other must-pass bills that he would be loathe to veto. As you correctly note, I worked for a Republican senator doing appropriations work and other issues back in the late 80s, early 90s - before I came out and became a gay rights activist - so yes I know a thing or two about how the congress works. I appreciate that you don't thik ENDA has a chance of becoming law, but the experts who actually make law in Washington disagree with you.

As for America's support for transgendered people, I wish you were right, but I really don't think you are. Yes, the Dem presidential candidates support ENDA, the ENDA that includes trans. That's great. But I think if you got them up there on the podium and started asking them detailed nasty-Republican-style questions about whether genetic males in dresses should be permitted in your daughter's nursery school bathroom, they would die. And that is the kind of question they will get asked, the kind of amendment that the Republicans will offer, should a trans-inclusive ENDA go before the House and Senate this year. People are not ready for it. YEs, they support ENDA, and yes, they supported it with trans included. That doesn't mean that we have the votes in Congress to pass ENDA with trans included, and it doesn't mean that the Democrats and our Republican allies wouldn't croak if pressed with really nasty questions and amendments by the Republicans.

Again, I could be wrong. But I think you vastly overestimate America's acceptance of transgendered people, transsexuals, and the like, especially when a laser beam is focused on them and their issues. I still think we have a long way to go, much further than the gay rights movement, and it's not like we're very far yet either.

So I just skimmed all 42 pages of letters, and I just wanted to say THANK YOU to all the people reminding Mr. Aravosis of his history -- once upon a time, we were not "all gay." We were all "freaks" - and the same people who call us freaks today and bash us verbally and physically include ALL of us in that term, L, G, B, and T. And yes, they most often identify us by our gender expression, not by asking who we have sex with, as was mentioned upthread.

I second the calling out of his unacceptable description of a transwoman.

And I also question his willingness to look a friend in the eye and say, "Wait your turn. It's only practical." Maybe it's because he doesn't have trans friends?

Props to Persia for pointing out that he seems to be saying it's those "pesky T's" that have been holding "us" back, when ENDA couldn't have been passed 10 years ago, no matter what.

But mostly, thank you thank you THANK YOU to Ginger of GRAANJ for her letter. I would only add: HELL YEAH!!

Gender rights are human rights, and the most visible and vulnerable gay and trans folks suffer. Remember where you came from, gay folks, and if you don't know, LEARN.

Even though I'm monogamously married to someone of the opposite sex, my employer could fire me for being bisexual. On the day Harvey Fierstein gets his horn on the head of all the closeted gays in this country, I wish God would give me an accounting of all the hours of service B/T's have given the L/G community (not to mention a horn on the head of all the closeted bi's in the L/G community). For a number of years I felt it was wrong-headed to hold back progress for one group within the larger queer community, because it might ultimately deter progress for all those groups. I'm still conflicted to be honest, so what brought me around to being unwilling to breach unity on this and most other issues? Reading about how proponents of women's suffrage debated whether they should settle for a compromise that would only give the vote to white women. There are some compromises that are just too ugly. This is one of them.

...are nothing like women, in a vital way, that perspective doesn't matter, as there are tens millions of Americans who believe that men like John Aravosis, men who prefer to kiss and caress other men and who like to be deeply penetrated by other men, are deeply and disgustingly womanly. And I don't care how butchy or straight-acting you are: if you're a boy who kisses boys, then you're the antithesis of a man in countless communities.

And that's what connects John and his gay brothers to trans-folk: this monstrous perception.

Maybe you are right John, you do have better connections than I do, but I don't see how in the hell Bush doesn't veto this, I just don't. As for your other argument, I'm reminded of how things played out here in Louisville. When the local Fairness Ordinance came up for a vote, we were assured by members of the city council that we had the votes to get this passed but that some of them might waver if the usual nutcases raised bloody hell. Well, they did raise hell, all kinds of it and it got pretty nasty.

But you know what, the uglier it got, the more votes we got. It passed overwhelmingly and many of those who voted yes, said that they were persuaded to vote that way only after seeing how hateful some in the community could be. When the pressure was on them, with the media eating it up and the city hall packed with vocal supporters of both sides, they did the right thing even though some told them it was politically reckless to vote yes. It's been almost ten years and not a single one of those brave souls ever paid a price at the polls. Republicans and Democrats alike were all re-elected and today, it's never even an issue.

I bring this up because Louisville is a lot like the nation at a whole. It's fairly representative of the nation with regards to race, religion and economic standing. Yes, it does skew towards the Democrats with regards to voter registration, but aside from the usual liberal urban enclaves, of which I am fortunate enough to live in, it's a pretty moderate place and hardly one of the big city liberal places you like to hold up as the only places that get such legislation passed.

A year after Louisville passed it's law, Lexington and Covington followed and I assure you that neither of them is close to as liberal as Louisville and yet the same thing happened there that happend here, the elected officials did the right thing and voted for a trans inclusive law. In both of those cities, no one who voted yes ever paid a price at the voting booth. My point is, if it can be done here in Kentucky, the home of Mitch McConnell, he lives in my neighborhood, Jim Bunning and Ernie Fletcher, it can happen anywhere, including at the national level. It's not going to happen as long as Bush is in office, but I really do believe that if we get him out of there and get a better Congress, less Bush Dog Democrats, we can do this in 2009.

Look, I want the 25 million gays and lesbians to get their protection as bad as you do. I was there fighting for local fairness long before I finally accepted the fact that I was trans. I fought the hateful marriage amendment in 2004 and worked hard to get John Yarmuth, one of the more liberal congressman, elected as my representative in Congress. I'm with you John, I really am, but dropping the T only to see Bush veto it gets us nowhere. And John, you are a smart guy, I've read your stuff at Americablog for a long time, but you know in your heart and mind that Bush isn't about to disappoint the 29% of the population that still supports him.

This is my last letter here on this topic, I'm tired and ready to get back to work fighting for social justice issues of all kind. You've created a good dialogue here and though I disagree with what you have to say, I respect your right to your opinion and will fight like hell to let you say, no matter how much I disagree with what you say. Thanks John.