Letters posted here are associated with the following article:

344
Letters
Monday, October 8, 2007 12:00 AM

How did the T get in LGBT?

The 30-year fight for a federal gay civil rights law may fail because activists insist on including rights for transgendered people too. Has gay inclusiveness gone too far too fast?

The letters thread is now closed.

View:
Sunday, October 7, 2007 10:57 PM

How Did the $ Get in LGBT?

"For gay men, the median household income is $83,000 per year (gay singles $62,000; gay couples living together $130,000), almost 80% above the median U.S. household income of $46,326, according to US census data."

Wow, that sure would be nice. I'm in that notoriously rich and luxurious field of education, and I often live close to the poverty line. My friends sure must be hiding their amazing incomes!

Trouble is, too, that survey (which was sponsored by a Vodka company) solicited responses by asking people to take a survey in magazines like The Advocate or online ventures like Gay.com. A few major flaws are immediately apparent. First, people most likely to see these requests for surveys are those who have enough free time to browse through glossy magazines and enough free cash on hand to plop down subscriptions to The Advocate or for the premium service sections of sites like Gay.com and pay attention to the ads. Notice the survey's startling revelation that their respondents tend to read-- gasp-- the very publications where they solicited many of their survey participants. Go figure.

Second, those who live in certain sections of the country-- particularly in the lower income bracket-- generally can't hop down to their local Piggly Wiggly and pick up the latest copy of the Advocate. Let alone see and respond to an ad by a premium Vodka company calling for a survey. Nor in areas where they're worried about any actual risk of discrimination do you risk your job by publically buying gay-and-lesbian-related publications you can't afford anyway (believe me, I've been there). The richer folk don't have to worry so much about scraping by, so they tend to be the ones who are more open and out, certain female celebrities starring in vigilante thrillers and CNN newscasters being an exception.

The phrasing in the above quote is weird too. That "according to US census data" is the "median U.S. household income," not the "80% above" for gays and lesbians, which comes from the Absolut Vodka sponsored survey. The way it is phrased would be easy to misread as suggesting that both ideas come from the US census. Shouldn't they be a little more careful about that?

Long story short, that survey is bunk. Its goal is to convince advertisers that gays and lesbians have a lot of disposable cash so ventures like the Advocate, Out, and Gay.com can up their ad prices. What it says about the full state of gays and lesbians in this country-- notoriously difficult groups to survey-- is negligible.

Sunday, October 7, 2007 10:59 PM

Parade of trolls from all sides!

Now you've done it!..

I agree with your article, take your victories where you can get them.

Also, I'm delighted to discover that David Sugarman is not only a Jewish supremecist but also a homophobe. David you are just full of surprises!

Sunday, October 7, 2007 11:05 PM

Problem is transgender isn't a sexual orientation

We all have a physiological sex (what our bodies were born as). We all have a gender identity (which gender we feel like). And we all have a sexual orientation (the sex and/or gender of people we're attracted to).

If you're transgender, your gender identity does not perfectly match your physiological sex. However, you still have a sexual orientation - you're still attracted to men or women or both or neither or something in between, but that has nothing to do with the fact that you're transgender, and doesn't change if you transition. People are T and G/L/B/Q/A/straight (can we have a letter for straight too please?)

It is sometimes convenient to include transgender as another orientation on the queer spectrum, and we should be working on transgender rights just like we're working on everyone else's rights, but it isn't an orientation, and we're not serving anyone well if we're listing LGBT as a list of radio buttons where you can only select one.

Sunday, October 7, 2007 11:29 PM

yes, bobbyjoe, i misread it that way

and thanks for the answer. the gays i've known were *richer* than the MEDIAN. certainly more than the median for Black folks, who the civil rights acts were for. Christopher Michael Neill - like the purple cow, i'd rather see you than be you. he doesn't want to include the transgendered? another angry gay male? wow! you have really good image makers! who would have guessed! and HOW is bisexuality an Orientation!? to me, it's a LACK of orientation. it was really weird to find that drinkwater url straight from the UAE (united arab emirates) expect to find unbiased israeli coverage there? how about gay rights? what are you READING!

Sunday, October 7, 2007 11:29 PM

@aeschylus

Actually there are 7 different sexual genetic variations recognized. You can be XXY,XXYY, XYY, etc. Some people are even chimeras, were some cells are XY and some are XX in the same body. There are even men who are XY but have a defect were their cells don't recognize testosterone so they look and behave like women. This all of course really muddies the marriage argument that's going on but strangely it never seems to get mentioned.

Sunday, October 7, 2007 11:42 PM

Community...

To answer a question from the article: no, it is not wrong to ask why. But it is tragic that the question needs asking.

While I understand the need for "practical politics" I have to disagree with your assertion that trans-gendered people have little or nothing in common with gays, lesbians, or bisexuals. The root issue is and has always been one of gender. Eliminating trans-gendered people from ENDA may be the necessary choice for the sake of compromise (something this country has a rich history of, though not of late) but to question their inclusion in our fight for equality is to disregard our history. I am certainly not the first here to remind us that it was the 'trannies' who chose to fight in 1969 at the Stonewall riots. Like it or not they started the modern gay rights movement. So to suggest that a "trans revolution was imposed on the gay community from outside" is understandably shocking to anyone who understands our past, and a slap in the face to the trans population at large.

In your article you often refer to a "gay community," a phrase that often strikes me as naive. As a homosexual myself, I have yet to experience a sense of community and prefer to describe us as a gay population. Perhaps if there truly were a community of homosexuals banding together to fight for real gender equality, we would not be questioning the inclusion of trans-gendered people. If there is victory with the passing of this new law, though it be in the spirit of compromise, it will be for me a hollow one.

Most Active Letters Threads

682

Obama's exceedingly familiar justifications for escalation

The "new" approach to Afghanistan touted by White House officials seems quite old
543

The crazy, irrational beliefs of Muslims

Tom Friedman explains the real problem: stupid Muslims think the U.S. is about war and aggression.
440

The face of rotted Washington

Evan Bayh demands more debt-financed war - fought by others - while boasting that he's a stern "deficit hawk."
326

The commendably missing element from Obama's speech

There was no pretense that human rights is our goal, or the likely outcome, in escalating the war
274

Yes, it's Obama's war now

An uninspiring speech sells a dubious policy, but progressives who feel betrayed have only themselves to blame

View all »

Letters Help

Currently in Salon