Letters to the Editor
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people i've liked (just in case i'm writing on water)
(these are just the folks i've had a realationship with, a back-and-forth, no derogation intended if you're *not* on the list). RealName, Golden Boy, LeCastor, GaYtheist, nooble, Locutus(before he was Garry Owen), Lola, Ben Dover, AKA Smith, Donaquixote. i've enjoyed getting to know you and i will miss you.
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omooex, think of israel as a national park for an endangered species
the jews. if you can prove that we don't need it, then we won't need a special enclave.
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Response to David
Well its nice to know someone reads my posts, and that there are people here who want to get into discourse for the purposes of edification. Here is my response:
I can't prove that Jews need the Israeli homeland, nor can I prove that they don't. I don't think my argument requires that the latter be true. What I am advocating is discarding a decrepit apartheid system that is hurting Israelis and Palestinians--while serving as a great excuse for repression by all the actors involved in the mess, including the US and Arab govt's. The two state solution is not a permanent solution, it will not work long. What I am advocating is a state of its citizens that includes the West Bank, Gaza, and Israel proper. We're a long way off from the kind of cultural clime that would get us there on both sides, so we better start working toward it now.
One last thing. When Israel became a nation, it could well have established Yiddish as its national language. It was the living language of Jews throughout Europe. Instead, it required all Jews to learn conversant Hebrew--a language so impoverished in the modern world that almost all of its slang is Arabic--while putting up serious road-blocks to the use of Yiddish, or any other language it designated as illegitimate. Yiddish faces language death today. Rabbinical powers within Israel also seek to narrow the definition of Judaism so that not all people who call themselves Jews will be allowed to live in the Jewish homeland unless they ditch their own Jewishness to one that hews closer to the Israeli model. Think about that! Israel may today be Judaism's worst enemy.
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omooex you sound like a jew!
yiddish was kept from me - it was a secret language for adults (ayelet's husband described it). jews have a lot of problems. being scared is ninety percent. i DON'T TRUST GOYIM. even america. my father served faithfully in the first world war (yes, on america's side) and became a doctor. still, the U.S. would not allow his sisters a visa. america HAD its chance - at Evian and Bermuda. i CERTAINLY don't trust the arabs. why SHOULD there be a state between jews and the people who teamed up with Hitler? they too had their chance. can you imagine what would have happened if palestine allowed unlimited immigration? they could have HAD sharia. they could have controlled EVERYTHING and have the jizya to keep them clipping coupons their entire lives. but they chose not to. jews are not like other people. i agree with that. ashekenazi jews have an average of +1 S.D. in IQ - that means that the germans (with the americans, british and arabs barring the fire doors) killed fully HALF of all europeans with IQ's above 150(3+). the ones who make a difference. YES i'm smarter than the average bear, should i apologize for that? i've forgotten what you said by now, what does it matter? i'm going to get deleted anyway. oh yes i remember. hey we are JEWS! NO ONE'S going to tell us what to think! yes it was bullying and assholishness to bring hebrew back. idiocy. but just because there was ezra doesn't mean the levites are dead. we are still alive. jews will *always* be alive. i'd *like* there to be secular jews, but that depends on rebels from the orthodoxy. the rest marry irish and convert their children. but they are my PEOPLE. yes, i'd like their money. and yes they only give to goyyim (6% to jewish causes, mostly colleges), but they are still my (stinkin) people. and atoms, like exist in america, envy that - even more than they do brains.
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Question for Realname...
You conflate Jews and the Israeli Government all the time. That makes me wonder: when you criticize, say, Iran, do you intend to be smearing Persians as a people at the same time, the same way you assume critics of Israel are smearing Jews?
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Anonymous Persian
what *are* persians? they aren't iranians since that would include the arabs in the south and the Lurs and Kurds in the north, who have an entirely different culture. if persians are those who speak farsi that includes a lot of afghanis (learned this from khaled housseini the author of kite flying who wrote another book and is around acting all humble). point is - are you a PEOPLE or just a HISTORY? it seems to me you've been taken over by the arabs. you are an oppressed peoples - by the MOSLEMS!
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Reply to Xanthro
Xanthro-
It looks like Israel initially tried to claim Pollard's operation was unauthorized, a rogue operation. Here's why I said that for two years Israel didn't admit Pollard was their spy: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/91260.stm
Thank you for the reference to Israel's apology. I note that it is worded in such a way that it doesn't admit the spying took place. Not much of an apology! The fact of the matter is that Israel recruited Pollard to spy on America for Israel. From a so-called ally, a lot more sincere apology would have been appropriate.
I don't think you, I, or anyone else can reach a confident conclusion on what happened with the Liberty just by reading public documents. If you weren't there, documents can take you only so far. Some of the American sailors who *were* there and survived are very clear about what happened. Based on what I've read, it looks like the Israelis knew the Liberty was American, but I don't have much confidence I'm right.
You claim that if the Liberty incident was deliberate, then the Vincennes incident was also. Hardly. It depends on the actual facts, which could be similar or utterly different in the two cases. Suppose Israel deliberately attacked the Liberty, knowing it was an American intelligence ship. How would it follow that the Vincennes deliberately shot down an Iranian airliner? Or suppose that the Vincennes deliberately shot down the airliner. Would it follow that the Israelis deliberately attacked an American ship and killed American sailors?