Letters to the Editor
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sorry Sam (i see you are back)
i like you but i hate alizoom. and my way of hitting back unfortunately had to be something that necessarily included you. sorry but i'm just so MAD!
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ok alizoom, you win the prize
for the most infuriating person i met on this forum. you went *just up to* the line, and i crossed it. and i hate you for making me despise myself. i should have used more self control, Sam did it, why couldn't i? still, you win. by making me cross the line, my post gets deleted while your's doesn't. but guess what? (and Susan, it's on topic) that makes you a troll!
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sure, women can be misogynists as well ... however ...
by my recollection MOST (overwhelmingly) of the letters in the last Lamott and Waldman bruhahas were from women ... Paglia is more split but I doubt she gives a damn and she seems to have a large "army" of students past and present eager to sing her praises (they self-identify). Dickerson seems to be very deliberately trying to "push buttons" and I suspect she'd be disappointed if she didn't get some heat in return. I don't read a lot of Broadsheet but some recently was embarassingly knee-jerk and adolescent (and seemed to be written for an adolescent audience).
Men used to write in to complain about all this girl-stuff (my term) and there's always a few from both sexes who complain about the tiny, affluent segment of society overly represented at Salon and more generally the self-indulgent navel-gazing that those readers really do not want to be associated with.
Sorry, I really think attributing the vehimence and ugliness of the "nasty letters" to 'MISOGYNY' is missing the point, quite possibly DELIBERATELY AVOIDING THE POINTS which were amply made IN THE LETTERS. There are issues, there are divisions. This is not misogyny.
It's possible that a better case for misogyny could be made in the random stranger threats made to Kathy Sierra, but frankly I don't know enough about ** what was said, ** by whom, ** in response to what .... NOT all hostility and/or violence towards women is "misogyny" ... and, yes, I suspect some "limited vocabulary" may be to blame.
Yeah, misogyny is a classy five-dollar word ... but it assumes facts not in evidence here and I think Joan is avoiding the genuine criticism and instead demonizing the "malcontents."
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i don't think it's right to take over someone's handle(as jack could tell you)
i take it as a kind of "identity theft" though not prosecutable. and a "small ess" is not a sufficent differentiator, "susan". as jack has explained over and over, *everyone* can tell(by the style), but i *still* don't like it. as you know, i'm not a great fan of "GET OFF! GET OFF! GET OFF! "Susan", but she deserves her own "voice" as EVERY female on this post will tell you.
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The cure for trolls
I haven't read any of the objectionable comments referenced in the article (or any of the other letters in reply to this article). However, Joan Walsh's descriptions certainly correspond to much that I've witnessed on the web.
Trolls thrive on anonymity. Most of them can't spew hatred toward minorities or women in public anymore, because most of the public just doesn't tolerate that sort of thing (at least in the extreme form we're talking about here). The solution is obvious:
No anonymous posting. Period. If you want to participate in a civil dialogue, then pony up your ID, and put your real name, and your real reputation, on the line.
That's my two cents.
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my anger has cooled and turned to shame
i apologize and beg your forgiveness, alizoom and Sam.
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Just keep it anonymous
Seriously, use your sane judgement to know what truely constitutes a threat and what doesn't. Some male brooding and venting his real thoughts and ideas on his computer will most likely not affect your world. And then seriously, if you think about it ... what do women have to gain by being ignorant of those that truely think very aggressivly and violently toward them. They get to be ignorant of the existence of rate ridden people? Regardless of how much they are on the fringe of society? I mean is it human nature to just want to be ignorant of people with differing views? I guess toughen up a little bit, most of it will be obnoxious and clutter, but ... you might actually learn something to. You might learn something about yourself by learning what you truely aren't, OR maybe some of the readers might see a little bit of their own hate and learn that maybe they don't like it, and want to learn to overcome it and better themselves. These are TOTAL positives, instead of berating those that have offended us or hurt our feeling, you can analyze and hope to learn something and maybe at the very least learn that there are shitty people out there. Would you rather not know?
Furthermore, battered and abused women more often than not would love to remain anonymous to try to protect themselves. Rape and molestation victems, women who've had abortions. Somethings I imagine the salon would NOT want to suppress, but would warmly welcome their perspectives and perhaps added insights. ALL things that are perhaps tabboo in society that makes who we are. Anomously airing dirty laundry, let's face it, is less of a distraction (in the more mild cases) to us than owning up to some serious baggage.
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Yeah, misogyny is a classy five-dollar word ... but it assumes facts not in evidence
nobody admits to hating women, so what would the evidence be? The only "useful" meaning of the word is as an adjective to describe behavior, ideas, institutions, etc which in someone's judgment are anti woman. The act of inquiring in a less than totally deferential way into the basis for the judgment is all the evidence most people need.
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Dave
Don't apologize to me - I'm not offended. Like I said, some people will argue over anything and her comments were silly to me as well.
Check this out: http://fathersforlife.org/pizzey/how_women_were_taught_to_hate_men.htm
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Nature rules
All men love woman, sometimes it's just hard to figure out how to get them. Womam, by nature of the sexual act must submit become our bitch so to speak and are unwilling to do this for anyone. This ca n be frustrating for a man who needs a bitch to settle his needs. Frustration is not hate though at times it might sound like it.