But, apparently, no time to file the paperwork to enter the country legally.

Those of us who did the paperwork, stood in line, paid the fees, took the tests and earned the privilege of bestowed citizenship are not amused. Some of us even think the illegal immigrants should all have to go back and stand in line to get in with everyone else.

All of them. 10 million, 11 million, 20 million -- doesn't matter. They thumbed their noses at the laws of the very communities in which they want to spread their roots. They shouldn't be rewarded with a path to anything even vaguely resembling citizenship.

-- Angry Asian Guy

If you resent the fact that you came legally while others did not, you should realize that all immigrants here are one bigoted law away from being here illegally. It is the politicians who decide who is legal and who is illegal based on arbitrary laws. It is in the interests of all working people to break down the barriers between legal and illegal workers. If all immigrants are made legal, then they cannot be paid less than minimum wage, are able to organize for better working conditions without fear of deportation, and therefore cannot be pitted against native-born workers. Full amnesty makes it possible for the living standards of all to rise. With the mass movement they are developing, immigrants have done all of us a big favor. By drawing attention to their plight, they have made possible a reawakening of labor solidarity.

We also should realize that none of the bills currently in congress, including the much-ballyhooed McCain-Kennedy bill, go far enough towards amnesty. The guest worker programs currently on offer create second-class workers with few labor rights who can be pitted against native-born workers, driving down the living standards of all. Full amnesty, on the other hand, would be good for all working people, allowing the re-birth of the workers' movement that we sorely need in this country. The fact that almost no Democratic politician wants to say he supports amnesty shows that this party does not represent our interests.

They will come here until America is as miserable a place to live as Mexico. Is that what you want?

When I came to Mexico from Maine, I breezed through so easily I thought: it's depressing to be viewed as that harmless. Six-month tourist visa, no problem. Want to stay longer? Go back to the border, do a U-turn, and enjoy Mexico for a few months more.

My Spanish teacher here, a middle class Mexican woman married to a guy from the U.S., described the visa process for Mexicans wanting to enter the United States:

You make a call to an expensive 900 number, to make an appointment at the nearest U.S. consulate, a 3-hr drive away. (Not long ago, the policy was no appointments, first come, first served, and people lined up in the middle of the night.) Anyway, you go to your appointment and present the huge pile of documents demonstrating that you have family/home/job to return to in Mexico--and the paperwork you have so laboriously collected doesn't mean anything, if the interviewer's opinion is that you have designs of staying or working in the States. Because the interviewer's subjective assessment of you is the arbitrary element in the process, and the last word. The interviewers have seen it all, and have an almost psychic sense of which people are tourists and which are "undesirables."

Any Mexican with any sense knows it's pointless to apply for a visa if they're just hoping to do manual labor that U.S. workers don't want to do. But sending dollars back to a peso economy is so empowering that people literally kill themselves to do it: that's where the coyotes come in.

The hypocrisy is beyond belief: if undocumented workers all got deported, the American economy would crash and burn, because Americans have such a sense of privilege and entitlement about what kind of work they will do.

Open the fucking border.

Gonnabechef and FredRate--you are supported. Unfortunately, it's not popular, but in my gut, I know what you say to be true. I can't say more on this because I get so angry and frustrated.

We are all immigrants here, other than the Native Americans. The Republicans themselves descend from immigrant families from somewhere else, though they like to forget that. There's an "I'm here now, so no-one else can move here" attitude, which is consistent throughout American history - every new group is condemned by the previous group. In spite of that, every new wave of immigration has only enhanced America as a paradigm of freedom.

In point of fact, the preponderance of our immigrant “Hispanics” are not of Spanish descent, but are the indigenous South American cultures that were enslaved by Europeans. (just as our Native Americans, the Maori, the Australian aboriginals, the Africans, etc, etc, etc. ) They actually were here first, folks. We are the late-comers, the careless houseguests.

This is the ultimate karma, taking 600 years to work itself out: the European despoilers of the globe, having colonized, industrialized and dominated every continent and every indigenous race (save Asia, and not because they didn't try!) being overrun and then voted out by the descendants of the peoples they conquered. This is really the secret fear of these conservatives pushing for deportation - they know that the sins of their ancestors are coming back to haunt them.

It's inevitable that the illegal immigration debate brings up the old standby argument:

Almost all Americans are illegal immigrants because the Native Americans were here first and white people practically wiped them out so we have no right to set borders or decide who can enter the country (because it's sooo arbitrary, this person gets in because they have a degree in computer engineering, but they deny a Visa to a Mexican with a 3rd Grade education who can barely read and write Spanish, what a travesty of justice!).

If we follow the logic for this argument:

Fling open the borders! Let in everyone on the planet who wants in. No restrictions, no regulations, no laws (laws are so damn arbitrary, some places you can drive 35, some 60, what a joke).

Besides that:

Latino illegals work hard (unlike the rest of us lazy, good for nothing, complacent American bastards), have lots of family and friends (ditto) and besides that, no fat, lazy, greedy, selfish American would want to do the jobs they do anyway (at least not at the wages illegals will, plus employers don't have to pay unemployment insurance, Social Security, worker's comp etc., which is why they don't want illegal immigration fixed either).

If we open the borders to anyone and everyone:

We become like the worst parts of India, with throngs of dirt poor people packed like sardines into shanty towns, too much for the infrastructure to support. With an unending supply of uneducated poor flowing in from every screwed up country in the world, our support systems (welfare, food stamps, Medicaid etc.) will collapse under their own weight.

So... if we as Americans really do get to keep our borders (as every country on the planet and throughout the history of civilization has), then I guess we should be able to determine our own laws and decide who is an American and who isn't. That would mean there is a legal system to become a citizen and whether it looks arbitrary or not to you is too bad. No one in this country is happy with all the laws, if they don't like them, they work to get them changed.