As for Kennedy - we do not at this time have national elections for Senators. People from states vote for someone to represent THEM, not the rest of the nation.

I used that quote to highlight your disingenuous arguments laced throughout your comment and your comments in general. I'm tired of pretending that we're having a conversation, because we aren't. Go sell your line of crap to the dumbasses at Redstate. They'll fondle your private parts for you.

"39% is not most. That means that 61% (most) want an investigation or don't care, but do not (at this time) want criminal proceedings.

Wow. Talk about twisting the facts. Your numbers are so obviously wrong it's unbelievable. You are trying to lump the 24% who want investigations with the 34% who don't want investigations and the 3% who have no opinion to come up with your 61% who you say want an investigation or don't care. You can't lump apples and pears with oranges and say they are all apples.

The real number of Americans who want an investigation or don't have an opinion (don't care in your words) is 39% (criminal) + 24% (non-criminal) + 3% (no opinion). It does not include the 34% who don't want investigations period. Sheesh!

The 34% who don't want investigations did not say they "don't care" as you would have us believe. They said they don't want investigations. If they don't want investigations how in the world can you combine them with people who do?

39% favor criminal investigations

24% favor independent panels

34% don't want any investigations

3% have no opinion

Of the 63% who favor investigations, most(39% vs 24%) favor criminal investigations with 3% who have no opinion and only 34% who don't want investigations.

39% is not most. That means that 61% (most) want an investigation or don't care, but do not (at this time) want criminal proceedings. As for Kennedy - we do not at this time have national elections for Senators. People from states vote for someone to represent THEM, not the rest of the nation. That is the way the Constitution sets it up. The evidence shows that the people of the U.S. are incapable of walking and chewing gum at the same time. They focus on whatever issue is making headlines, to the exclusion of everything else. Then they forget about that issue and move onto the next. Criminal proceedings will suck the oxygen out of the room for the duration of the proceedings, and once it becomes clear that Republicans are the targets (which they will be, because they are the miscreants), people will decide that it's all just partisan nonsense and tune out, focusing on their own lives.

It would be nice to get some headlines about Iraq. How many soldiers are dead? How many Iraqis? What is actually going on in Afghanistan? Have they started allowing little girls to go to school? Are we still looking for Bin Laden? How is the political situation in Pakistan since the assassination? And that is just internationally. The next issue on Obama's agenda seems to be the housing crisis, and it is a crisis. Then there are banks that may be going under and people facing bankruptcy because of housing and medical bills and increasing lines at food banks and how we are going to come up with money to pay for the social security of the baby boomers. And medicare. These issues may not be of importance to you, but they are very important to millions of Americans who expect the government to deal with their future, not the past.

We need to focus on fixing problems, including the ability of Presidents to change policy in ways that are deeply offensive to human sensibilities. But that doesn't require complicated "Truth Commissions" or pardons (which would be truly offensive, imo). It simply requires that somebody proposes legislation that will pass the Senate.

Most Americans want some kind of investigation and want us to not torture anymore. They don't care if people are prosecuted.

According to the recent USA/Gallup poll:

of those Americans who want an investigation

39% favor criminal

24% favor an independent panel

Most Americans want some kind of investigation and want us to not torture anymore. They don't care if people are prosecuted. They just want it to stop. And they want our government doing what it is designed for: helping people.

-- jebldmm

Who told you that? Joe Conason? well guess what, Joe Conason is full of it in this post and needs to pipe in and correct himself because he is losing credibility by the minute by not doing so.

Oh, and if you murder my brother, I want you investigated and prosecuted. I don't want you to just insincerely apologize, and I'm not the least bit concerned about the time that might take in a court of law to see to it that you are prosecuted. The same holds for United State's Government War Criminals.

And if our representatives in government want to pretend that they can't chew gum and walk at the same time then they'd best get out of the way for people who are more competent who can take control.

Whether Caroline Kennedy should have been a Senator was of importance only to New Yorkers, the people she would have been representing.

-- jebldmm

I've got bridges to sell! You sound like a buyer!

Bullshit about Caroline Kennedy, or anyone else going for the seat of New York Senator, being of importance only to New Yorkers. There are only 100 Senators. Each and every one of them has the power to turn legislation on a dime. Legislation that effects us all. Your tripe about "navel gazing" was thin gruel to begin with, and has now turned to water.

Navel Gazing: "Excessive introspection, self-absorption, or concentration on a single issue"

Whether Caroline Kennedy should have been a Senator was of importance only to New Yorkers, the people she would have been representing. But the entire netroots took it on as a cause celebre, letting it distract them for days, debating her merits as if they were the most important issue in the world. Do you really think they were? Or is it just possible that there were more worthy issues to be addressed, such as rendition, how to stop the Taliban, and how to prevent economic collapse?

All of this focus on punishing BushCo IS navel gazing. You are willing to distract the nation from health care reform, healing the national and world economies, dealing with what we have done to Iraq and Afghanistan, and helping the millions of people who are suffering in the world... for what? To make Rumsfeld pay? It isn't going to happen. To make Bush pay? It isn't going to happen. Even if Bush personally stood on the White House lawn and declared that he had been in favor of exterminating every man at Abu Graib, he would suffer no consequences. "Truth and Reconciliation" are necessary when an entire society has been destroyed, but we haven't. Most Americans want some kind of investigation and want us to not torture anymore. They don't care if people are prosecuted. They just want it to stop. And they want our government doing what it is designed for: helping people.