everything they have ever said to a family member

Not to mention, everything said in the presence of family.

Apparently I need to clarify a few points. I agree that representative democracy is a good thing. But if you don't like the job that the Pres and Congress are doing (80% of Americans don't) then it is insanity to re-elect the same incumbents again and again and expect different results. But that is exactly what we are doing with a 90%+ incumbent re-election rate. I don't believe in rewarding failure for disasters like Iraq.

And having more people directly participate in holding public officials accountable doesn't seem like theory to me. It seems like it was what the founders intended. The founders expected the office seekers would be driven by ambition and avarice as well as by the nobility of the spirit. The pols need to fear the people more than the lobbyists. And, yes, branding, and all sort of neo-mythic making crap have to take place. Both our modern sensibilities and tribal roots have to be placated.

Why do you think this system of "democracy" that I have just described is what has worked in this country for so long and is what most other democratic countries are using up to the present? It may not be perfect, but it is better than anything else out there.

So I hear what you are saying, but I don't believe it will work. Nice theory, though.

Hahahahahahaha.

OK, I get it. Let's not make Obama into more than he is. Point taken.

However, you people that demonize everything he does are no different.

Two horns on the same freaking goat.

Obamas assertion that since "we" all occasionally disagree with our spiritual advisors, we also then continue to associate with said spiritual advisors regardless of any profoundly distorted views they have, is false. Most people do not continue to associate with people with profoudly distorted views of anything, and most people do not even dream of attempting the moral gymnastics he feels proud of.

It's quite clear that you do not live in the Bible Belt.

My state is the one where a triple amputee Vietnam vet was morphed into Osama bin Laden in a political attack ad and the attacker won a US Senate seat for it.

I suspect that a majority of "spiritual advisers" in my state agreed with the attack ad.. I'm absolutely certain that a plurality did.

Do I really have to get into Godwin's law territory to make my point?

And, boy, doesn't that just piss off the Hillary supporters to no end?

Obama is completely changing the game.

First, when asked in a debate to list a weakness -- he did! Whereas Hillary knew the trick was to never (ever!) admit any weakness. She gave some text book answer about working too hard or caring too much. (eye roll)

Second, he consistently claims he is not perfect. Oh boy. They hate that because Hillary's entire strategy is claiming that, basically, she is perfect and any other choice for President will endanger lives! Obama disagrees with Hillary over policy details; Hillary, however, says to vote for Obama is to murder your family. (double eye roll)

Third, he never vilfies his opponents. This is such a game changing tactic that Obama's haters (for lack of a better word) are totally incapable of responding to it.

Obama never claims that all Republicans are evil, nor is Geraldine Ferraro, nor is his pastor, nor is Hillary. Obama has mastered the art of disagreeing with a particular policy or a particular philosophy without demonizing the person or portraying them as evil incarnate.

This is why people love Obama and (sigh) roll their eyes at Hillary because she just doesn't get it.

This latest speech by Obama is once again Obama disagreeing and strongly condemning statements made by his pastor, but at the same time refusing to dismiss the man as Hitler (as I'm sure Hillary's advisors would have ordered her to do in a similar situation to cover her ass).

KateTex: "All we had to do was throw the Clintons and grandma under the racist bus, but hey, it was worth it."

How did he throw the Clintons under the racist bus? He actually downplayed the actions of Ferraro etc.

How did he throw his grandmother under the racist bus? He said that she had stated a few things that made him cringe. So what? I am sure his grandmother understands where he's coming from.

My own grandmother said many racist things. I thought she was nuts. She also hated when I sang the "Comet/vomit" song.

It's sung to the tune of "The Bridge on the River Kwai:"

"Comet...it makes your face turn green. Comet....it tastes like gasoline. Comet....it makes you vomit....so try new Comet....and vomit......to-day."

My grandmother came from another generation, where saying things that were racist by today's standards were considered acceptable. I came across a lot of people who were like that, when I was a kid. I especially remember one woman -- a friend of my uncle's -- saying that she loved vacationing in Houston because "the blacks there know their place." Even then, I secretly wanted to tell her, "Fuck you." I was only about 10 years old at the time, and I knew her words were garbage. But she was a friend of the family, and my uncle, though apparently uncomfortable, did not challenge her on her statement.

It really amazes me how many Clinton supporters and others are going overboard trying to punch holes in Obama's speech. You people seem insane to me.

sigh...don't you think that maybe, just maybe, he ran this past his grandmother? Told her "hey gramma, here's my speech I'm going to give. Do you have a problem with that?". Do you really think she didn't know about her being mentioned in this speech? Do you really think he wouldn't predict that this one minor point would be jumped all over by his detractors?

but thanks for obscuring the point with minutiae.

cheers