You don't need a minister or magistrate or whatever to sign your marriage license. All you have to do is ask them to sign it when you get the license. There's no need for any type of religious nor psuedo religious ceremony. That's exactly how my hubby and I got married - at the county office - we got the license, paid for it, then the guy at the desk and both of us signed it - done. We were married.

That may be true where you live, but in my state a marriage isn't legal until it's solemnized by someone who is licensed by the state to do so.

The group that wants to repeal Maine's new gay marriage law with a referendum vote says it has gathered enough signatures to put it on the ballot in November.

Stand for Maine Marriage is a coalition of several groups that includes Maine's Catholic diocese.

Mr. Mutty, from the Roman Catholic Diocese of Maine, is also the spokesman for the anti-marriage campaign. The Catholic Church in Maine doesn't have much money. There's a dearth of priests and the diocese has been shutting down parishes. We've heard rumors of a $2 million commitment from the Catholics. So, one wonders, where will the money for the anti-marriage come from? Has the bishop of Maine called Salt Lake City yet. That's what the Archbishop of San Francisco did last year on Prop 8.

The National Organization for Marriage (NOM), led by the ever painful Maggie Gallagher, will be pumping money into Maine. Where will NOM get its money? I'm thinking all roads lead to Salt Lake City. NOM did name an extremist from the Mormon Church to its board. That guy is Orson Scott Card.

http://www.americablog.com/2009/07/marriage-opponents-in-maine-have.html

But it's a pipe dream to think that the problem can be easily solved by taking the state out of marriage all together (as some posters suggest). People against gay marriage are really against gay relationships being held to the same standards as their own hetero, god-sanctioned relationships. They don't want gay relationships compared or held equal to their very special relationships. They are assholes. They will not go for this.

Of course, the good news is they are LOSING.

The silver lining to the civil rights debacle that is the ridiculous denial of equal marriage rights is stuff like this.

Marriage being re-examined as an institution (cause it does badly need to evolve, even for straight people), clergy stepping up to fight for civil rights, the thread of protest for equality being a link from this back to all the other fights before, as alluded to by the clergy that are stepping up to the plate.

Frankly, nothing worth having is easy. And if fighting for the right to create a family with equal protections under the law makes everyone take that family a bit more seriously, then perhaps the fight itself will even have been worth it.

-Me, rooting for marriage in CA, both gay and straight.

"there's never been anything remotely suggesting any church would ever be forced to perform a wedding it didn't believe in."

You are absolutely correct here.

"When you get a marriage license, you are legally married. Many people currently choose to include the church by having them sign off as the witness - but since they don't have to, since you can just have it signed anytime - it's really not much of a mix. And you can be married just by the church - as many gay people are - without the state being involved or approving in any way."

AH but HEREIN lies the rub. Once you do get the government to approve gay marriage, THEN it will be brought up about the first part of your argument. You see, it isn't JUST being married that is the issue being fought for...it's being accepted as married by everyone INCLUDING or perhaps ESPECIALLY the church that most radical homosexual groups want.

One can be married many ways, including common law in most states if you live together long enough in a heterosexual relationship. The issue is, most homosexuals who are fighting this argument want acceptance as normal not only by the government but ALSO by the Church - as well as the majority of society...which it will most likely never get.

Um, no, I am not looking for acceptance by any church. I've never heard anyone I know say that not only do they want the right to marry the person they love, but they demand that the church accept it. Nah....sorry, you think you can read our minds, but you can't. Why do you speak for yourself.

Sorry, meant to say "Why DON'T you speak for yourself."

But here's a hypothetical. I understand that a church can refuse to marry anyone for any reason. But with a wall of separation btw church and state in the matter of marriage, wouldn't it be possible for me to marry one person in a church wedding and someone else under state law? For that matter, wouldn't a church also be able to perform polygamous or polyandrous or interspecies marriage, or marriage btw adult and child (with no legal standing, and with freedom of religion, what can the state do?)Isn't that the case with polygamy now, that while several women may be religiously married to one man, the state can only recognize one lawful marriage.

Additionally, isn't it true now that a 'godparent' has only religious status within a church and no legal standing in the case of parents naming a guardian for a child in case the parents die? I know someone who was not allowed by the Catholic Church to be named as a godfather in the sacrament of baptism for his nephew, but he was the legally designated guardian of the child anyway.

It seems to me that the state codified laws of marriage could actually be more restrictive than church marriage, because some churches could go ahead and marry dead people, the preborn, goldfish, whatever to whatever, all without creating a legal entity, but then so what? What would it mean outside of that particular church?