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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
actually have quite a bit in common. Both think they have all the answers, and neither have spent time in war zones. Graner is not the problem. Hell, even Caley was not the problem. The problem was and is those people in power who create the conditions in which torture and other atrocities become acceptable. Do you really think My Lai was isolated? Do you think Abu Ghraib is the onlyone of its kind? The chickenhawks need symbols to crucify. And the peaceniks need the chickenhawks. The rest of us need leaders who understand psychology and how it feels to be tossed into a war zone at the age of 18. Leaders who know the brutal reality of combat and guerrilla warfare. Those who know war don't like it. And they generally don't blame the grunts for carrying out the orders of the brass.
The constitution rightly prohibits "cruel and unusual punishment", it is a travesty that so many prisoners in the U.S. are subject to cruel treatment such as extensive solitary confinement, lack of mental stimulation, light on all the time, and I'm sure much worse. Even sadistic thugs such as Mr. Graner should be treated in a non-sadistic way.
As for his higher-ups deserving prison? Of course they do, but that is completely irrelevant to the question of whether or not Graner should be in prison.
A few letter writers have offered up the Stanford Prison Experiment as an excuse for Mr. Graner. I disagree. The Stanford Prison Experiment gave the guards the freedom to mistreat the prisoners, but did not force them to. Afterwards, "One-third of the guards were judged to have exhibited "genuine" sadistic tendencies".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment
Of the general public, would one third exhibit sadistic tendencies if given the opportunity?
Again, according to the Wikipedia article:
"Also, it has been argued that selection bias may have played a role in the results. Researchers from Western Kentucky University recruited students for a study using an advertisement similar to the one used in the Stanford Prison Experiment, with and without the words "prison life." It was found that students volunteering for a prison life study possessed dispositions toward abusive behavior."
If, say only 10-20 % of the general population exhibits "genuine sadistic tendencies", why has the Republican party embraced torture so enthusiastically?
I think the main reason is to garner the enthusiastic support of sadists like Mr. Graner (that not-insignificant percentage of the population). Even if they don't get to torture in defense of their country, they do get to bask in the stories of Abu Ghraib and Gitmo, knowing that they support the party that is tough enough to torture. Hence John McCain naming Jack Bauer as his favorite celebrity, and 24 a favorite among Republican pundits.
There wasn't a big down-side either as they had the cover of the war on terror, and the moral justification of the ever-popular 24 (ticking time-bomb).
The other big reason for the Republicans to support torture, was that if, (as Carl Rove hoped) they managed to achieve "a permanent Republican majority", then torture would be invaluable in keeping their enemies in check. People often say "torture doesn't work", but in actual fact, throughout history, torture has been an essential tool for dictatorships to keep in power. Being threatened with death is one thing, but being threatened with being tortured to death (or worse being kept alive for years and tortured) is a much worse threat.
No matter what our constitution says, no matter who our leaders are, or what our laws say, if a high enough percentage of the general public decides to support torture, then we are all in very big trouble.
These comments were very instuctive- no agree, or agree, but in my opinion. It's hard to shush up, Listening may be the hardest
practice of all disciplines.
The variety of thinking was,
delicious. O sweet + bitter.
Off - Topic. A broad wing hawk swooped down yesterday and will not go away. It's a old Cooper Hawk? Maybe a Sharp-shinned Hawk?
We've many photos of the "falcon" with sharp talons sitting on head, shoulder, hands, and the Broad-winged Hawk refuses to go. It will not leave. It's beautiful, not wounded, and the amazing bird will not leave until it feeds on a cat, hen, or a red rooster? I once had a Wild Turkey stay beyond the welcome. It was a wild turkey pet.
The North American Wildlife book shows it is not a Turkey Vulture, Swainson Hawk, Red Shouldered Hawk, Red Tail Hawk,
It can't be a Osprey. It resembles The Peregrine Falcon? It is Beautiful. A Wonder. Amaze amazement. The architects of warfare sure are,
Nasty Fowl Buzzards...
Quoting the article: "Tonight ended up being the same ole same ole," Graner wrote his parents in an e-mail dated Dec. 12, 2003, four months before the scandal broke. He attached a now-infamous photo of a black dog snarling at a nude detainee cowering outside a cell with his hands on his head. "Inmate tries to break out of cell i find out i punish i bring in dogs i get assaulted dog bites prisoner," Graner wrote. "I think he was more trying to get away from the dogs than really wanting to assault me but he did and he paid."
And he doesn't belong in prison? I think his parents who received photos prior even to this one deserve some prison time for not reporting this abuse themselves. Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because the higher ups who ordered this have escaped their due punishments -- so far -- does not mean Mr. Graner is innocent or is being unduly punished.
He had the option of refusing the order and reporting abuse which would have led to a court martial and prison, but he probably would have been freed eventually because he really did the right thing (and even if not, he'd be in prison knowing he was right, instead of being in prison and knowing, however much he may deny it, that he was dead wrong). However, he chose the cowardly, amoral road, and he's paying for it right now. Now we have to make Bush and the other originators of this disgraceful crime pay equally.
Much of the initial coverage about Fort Hood turned out to be wrong. Is there anything wrong with that?
The accountability imposed by another country for the CIA's kidnapping and torture reveals much about our own.
Fox News' morning show plays to type, talking about whether Muslims in the Army should face "special debriefings"
The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right are making to genocide
Once seen as a lunatic fringe, reactionary anti-women groups are courting respectability
Salon headlines in your mailbox
