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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
Graner is a torturer. He got busted and convicted. The torture started at the top? So what. Graner still carried out the most heinous acts against other human beings. Bush and the rest should be convicted as well, but we know it does not work this way.
That's no excuse however to let Graner out.
His prison existence is torturous now? Tell that story to the millions of men and women in US prisons today-- many inside for mere drug busts or nasty three strikes laws.
No Sympathy. If he wants out them he needs to speak out, blow the whistle and call for abolition of torture and the international prison system overall. Then perhaps we let the healing begin.
I couldn't go on reading these but let me assure you, this criminal is being mistreated.
If we claim we are better than they are, prison should be harsh but fair, and have aspects of rehabilitation as well as punishment.
*Keeping prisoners in solitary confinement indefinitely is abuse.* In particular, it makes rehabilitation almost impossible.
I agree this guy should be in jail. BUT he was only following orders! You know that he would also have been punished if he had quit once he knew what was going on. This was a not-very-nice man, put in a very bad situation by his commanding officers, who made a wrong choice. People in the US endure far less time and much better jails for murdering their loved ones in cold blood. He deserves jail, he doesn't deserve torture.
And the ultimate responsibility has to go to the people issuing the orders - they are the ones who should be facing the harshest punishment.
Maureen O'Connell (Jeezus, is she back?! ugh) raised the issue of Graner abusing his first wife and kids. Let's be clear about this. Neither I nor anyone else here can say whether that's true or not. Probably it is (where there's smoke there's usually fire), but as far as I can tell he was never convicted of that in a court of law. If there was strong evidence that he was battering her and the kids, why was he not prosecuted for it? Accusations of abuse are sometimes used as weapons in nasty divorce and custody proceedings, and the fact that she was awarded a restraining order proves little, as they're usually not that difficult to obtain and have a far lower burden of proof than even a civil lawsuit judgment requires. Some might argue that these accusations fit a pattern, given what he was convicted of doing at Abu Ghraib, but that's a real stretch. Unproven accusations that he smacked around his wife and kids are not even in the same ballpark as is documented evidence that he participated in the torture of adult male members of a dehumanized, foreign enemy who were in custody precisely because they were accused or suspected of engaging in terrorist acts or attacks on US forces after the invasion settled into an occupation. We're talking apples and oranges here, and there's no conclusive evidence that justifies linking the one to the other, or claiming that the one definitively proves the other. To make that argument is to engage in mere speculation with a desire to pile on and trash the character and reputation of a man who's already been thoroughly vilified.
I am truly shocked that this article has cutesy pictures of Graner with Santa. WTF? Abu Ghraib and Gitmo are atrocities and to act like Graner was an innocent victim who deserves to be freed is ridiculous.
I do agree that his current punishment is severe and he should be sent back into the mainstream prison population but that is it. If he was documenting the brutality with photos for proof of something, then why the need to have smiling faces and thumbs up around them? When those pictures first hit the press I just couldn't understand why this could be happening. At the time the righty talk shows were laughing about the abuse, saying it wasn't so bad, whats the big deal about being forced to masterbate and wear women's underwear or have growling dogs nearby.
I remember when John Darby came home after whistle blowing. He was greeted in his hometown by threats. There was no hero's welcome, talk shows calling him a traitor. Same thing with Jessica Lynch. When she finally spoke to the press and didn't go along with the propaganda of her heroic rescue she was slut shamed. The same talk shows that glorified her weeks before were now calling her unpatriotic and started digging into all types of sexual improprieties.
If I have any sympathy for anyone, they would be on the top of my list, along with all the innocent prisoners. Not Charles Graner who enjoyed doing what he was doing. Is it fair that he's the only one in prison? Hell no! I think all the higher ups should be charged. I'd like to think that Obama is going to do something about this. But other than stopping the mental torture that he's currently enduring, I think him being in prison for what he did is fair enough.
What is surprising though is how Graner was able to email the photos undetected by the military. I thought their mail was censored somewhat, especially when attachments would be involved. Anyone with knowledge of soldier's privacy?
Solitary this long is torture. Torture is always wrong. Not only for the tortured, but those doing the torturing. Punish him, yes. Torture him, no.
I personally would like to have a whole bunch of people in Graner's chain of command either in Leavenworth for the rest of their lives, or hung.
You & I know that isn't going to happen. Graner, however, is paying a price for his malicious & dishonorable conduct. The story is about him (and his family) & I think most commenters are focusing on whether or not we should have any 'sympathy' for him.
Whether we do or not doesn't change the fact that his superiors knew and approved of how he & others ran the prison.
As an ex-military officer the 'briefings' you attended would have disgusted me as well. It is clear to me that this horrible administration has put its stain on the officer corp & Pres. Obama will need to ferret out the undesirables & remove them before they can do more harm to our military.
Much of the initial coverage about Fort Hood turned out to be wrong. Is there anything wrong with that?
The accountability imposed by another country for the CIA's kidnapping and torture reveals much about our own.
Fox News' morning show plays to type, talking about whether Muslims in the Army should face "special debriefings"
The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right are making to genocide
Once seen as a lunatic fringe, reactionary anti-women groups are courting respectability
Salon headlines in your mailbox
