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Monday, December 1, 2008 12:00 AM

Sympathy for Charles Graner

No one from the Bush administration has been held accountable for torture. But the guard from Abu Ghraib prison is still behind bars, and his family wants to know why.

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Sunday, November 30, 2008 06:30 PM

Unfairness?

Graner is receiving exactly what he doled out: torture. He is most certainly not being treated unfairly. However, he should have some company (about half of the Bush crime family should be keeping him company).

That said, giving him eye-for-an-eye "justice" should be beneath us. Torture should be beneath us. Selective prosecution should be beneath us. Maybe a certain new President will inspire us to leave the dark ages behind and rejoin the enlightenment. It will be a sweet day when our prisons are used for rehabilitation rather than revenge and the rule of law applies to all, regardless of circumstances.

Sunday, November 30, 2008 06:43 PM

I wonder . . . .

I wonder how well George W. Bush would fare in a military prison, placed in solitary confinement, lights on 24/7, being strip searched for no reason, with no entertainment besides reading.

Sunday, November 30, 2008 06:49 PM

Can't Accept Your Headline

Of course, Graner should not be the only one still in prison; but he most certainly should be in prison. I thought I had seen all the horror there was to be seen of the Abu Ghraib scandal through the fairly extensive TV coverage. Then I saw "Taxi to the Dark Side." Unbelievably appalling. No apologies from me for no sympathy for Charles Graner.

Sunday, November 30, 2008 06:51 PM

I opine.... Why do families rear a slime trough torture psycho to wind up in a Bush admistration? Sympathy to the Charles Graner family.

Those who ruin everything they 'touch'...

belong in a dungeon psychiatric ward....

Do parents of pro-jail people loath?

They certainly grieve the Rove/Bush,

etc., were not aborted at conception.

None would wish offspring to be vile.

Porkers can bang hips in a barnyard?

People cultivate character. Virtue. ay?

Chefs fed outdated 'spaghettios'? Oy!

Gad, who gonna buy orange pig bibs?

Politico's wish a stage of life: e.i.e.i.o?

Sunday, November 30, 2008 07:02 PM

@ Human Power

If "torture should be beneath us," why do you feel Graner is not being treated unfairly (ergo, he *is* being treated fairly)? Isn't Graner being tortured? I believe he is.

I am convinced that Graner is a pawn and a victim of the Bush Administration, not unlike those he tortured. If you haven't already done so, it would be instructive to look at what others have said about the parallels of Abu Ghraib and the Stanford University Prison Experiment. Here is a good site:

http://www.prisonexp.org/

Take a moment and consider (or reconsider) some basic aspects of human behavior as it relates to the roles, expectations, and behaviors we humans perform within our circumstances, then decide if Graner is being treated fairly.

I wish you all (including Graner and his family) PEACE~

Sunday, November 30, 2008 07:28 PM

About Graner

He should be only the start.

But not a bad start.

Sunday, November 30, 2008 07:33 PM

Um, no.

Isn't Graner being tortured?

No.

Gee, that was difficult.

Is he being treated "unfairly"?

No.

Are others more powerful than Mister Graner being allowed to escape justice?

You betcha!

Sunday, November 30, 2008 07:36 PM

does w. f. calley ring a bell?

he did 2 stints of house arrest for being in charge of the murder of 350-or so women and children. america changed the channel so fast that it's a bit surprising he didn't walk. but he didn't, total about 3 years confinement to barracks. from one point of view, like for instance if he was in the nazi army, he should've hung. but he was in the american army, and unless you're willing to hang every one in his chain of command, he should've walked, because vietnamese were officially 'unpeople'.

with this context of american military history, graner deserved loss of a week-end pass. remember, he was outside. the boys in the windowless room weren't doing less, you may be sure.

Sunday, November 30, 2008 07:43 PM

He can dish it out but can't take it.

I don't see what he's complaining about. This whole, "I was ordered to..." is such a cop-out. It's very Nazi-ish. He made his bed and needs to lie in it.. with the lights on.

Sunday, November 30, 2008 07:51 PM

As a former MP

officer, I find it incredible that none of his superiors are in jail (and I mean specifically his lt., his capt., his first sergeant: I find it impossible to believe they were not aware of what he was doing, or if they were not, they were so criminally negligent in their supervisory duties that they should be jailed as well). I agree with the commandant of the prison that Graner shamed the MP corps: but I would point out that those officers who had Graner under their direct supervision brought far more shame on it. I was taught that I was responsible for the actions of those under me, with no excuses for negligence. If Graner's lt. and capt. aren't in there with him, why is he?

Sunday, November 30, 2008 07:53 PM

Do the Right Thing

In 1977 I went through basic training for the army. One day we had a half-day class on our personal responsibilities as a soldier under the UCMJ and the Geneva Convention, as related to wartime deployment. The instructor told us that the course was a direct result of Lt. Calley’s actions at My Lai, which was still relatively fresh in the nation’s memory.

After detailing the prohibitions and thou-musts of armed conflict, he said to us: “If you are given an order that is obviously illegal, you have two choices before you. First choice, you refuse to follow the order. You will then be subject to court martial and imprisoned and – if you are convicted of treason – you will possibly spend the rest of your life in prison. If you instead obey what is clearly an illegal order, you and you alone will be held accountable should it ever come to light. And your signature on the form you sign at the end of this class is the army’s proof that you understand the consequences of obeying an illegal order. I hope to god you poor bastards are never placed in this position. But if you are ever sent to war, you will be.”

I imagine that this was merely a formal acknowledgement of the way things had been all along, same as it ever was.

Sunday, November 30, 2008 07:54 PM

Not prosecuting Bush doesn't excuse Graner

The people at the top most definitely should have been tried and convicted. But "impeachment is off the table" per Pelosi, and nobody in this administration will ever be held accountable for anything.

But that doesn't excuse Graner. He was the ringleader and he's getting exactly what he deserves. If ever the punishment fit the crime, it's keeping this guy in solitary and making him suffer.

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