Recently PBS aired a documentary called 'Torturing Democracy'. It recounted in some detail the stories of Bagrahm, Guantanamo, Abu Graib, unspecified 'dark sites', and the complicity of high Bush administration officials, including Bush himself, in the terrible acts committed at those places. This program repeatedly mentioned several names as driving the atrocities, causing formerly normal people to become insane. Many of the tortured were victims of bounty programs and family vendettas, innocent of any terrorist acts. How many? No one will know since incriminating evidence was obtained via water boarding, sleep deprivation, and extreme sensory overload to the extent that the prisoners said anything that the torturers wanted to hear. Even the FBI criticized these techniques as being ineffective in obtaining correct information.

We must investigate the criminality here and bring those responsible to account. We must do this ourselves in the USA and not let other countries (like Italy) where there are warrants in existence do it for us.

Two words: civil suits.

The size of the challenge ahead for the country and Obama does not allow the pursuit of Bush et al on the torture charge. Among the many torts committed by Bush, the torture crimes committed may be the most henious. Unfortunately the climate crisis, energy crisis and healthcare crisis will take all of Obama's time, all 10 million volunteers from the campaign, all three million donors from the campaign and (in fact) all Americans both Democrats and Republicans to solve. Obama has limited time and a steep climb ahead. Regardless of how he tries to play the Bush torture card he ends up appearing partisan right after saying "I need everyone...even those who did not vote for me." Let the Hague indict Bush.

On one hand, Dubaya has done great harm to the US, the most one person could ever do. On the other hand, knowing how bad and incompetent he was, he was lawfully re-elected in 2004.

Democracy involves responsibility, pure and simple. Yes, we'd all like to see Bush pay for his incompetence, but it is the electorate that has to share that responsibility, it's the price we pay to live in a representative democracy.

Consider Zimbabwe, for all the damage Mugabe has inflicted on that country, and considering the fact that he has lost the election there, ask yourself, why did he not step down and transfer power? Precisely due to his fear of retribution, no more, no less.

I hate what Dubaya has done to this country, the country that I chose to become a citizen of (formerly Canadian), but I believe the US is better than Zimbabwe. We should accept that Dubaya won in 04, argue as much as you want about your stupid neighbors who voted for him then -- and accept Obama's election of 08 as a direct, and as the only, repudiation of that stupidity.

Another way to say it, the shit has hit the fan, it's not time to search for the guilty. It;s time to rebuild.

Though I personally favor an approach that at least threatens those who subverted the Constitution and treaties and broke existing laws with jail time, a commission may be the more practical route.

The extra-legal activities of the George W. Bush administration are so monstrous, covered with flimsy legal excuses on the level of a boy who's afraid he'll get caught with stolen cookies, that there HAS to be some accountability. There HAS to be some way of telling present miscreants and those who might be tempted in the future that this is wrong and criminal and will be punished.

We've already seen how officials from earlier administrations who didn't seize the power they wanted went underground and emerged again in 43's administration, including officials who were convicted before and then pardoned. Cheney, et al., were resurrected into positions where they were able alter the balance of power among the branches of government and, in secret, conduct numerous heinous acts that were illegal and which brought shame upon the USA. That cannot go unanswered.

A stage not addressed is Congressional and Executive action to prevent repetition. Examples: It should be made clear that the Vice President's office is part of the Executive Branch and that its personnel and activities are public and must be disclosed. Signing statements should be illegal. The Military Commissions Act should be overturned and replaced with an affirmation of habeas corpus and other legal protections. The archiving system for White House electronic communications should be made tamper-proof and accountable. The law on presidential (and vice presidential) records should be reinstated and strengthened so the public has more assurance that, at some point, the truth will be known about Executive shenanigans. All Executive Orders should be public. Etc., etc., etc.

We can't just turn our backs on what has happened, and the people in Congress and the White House who allowed it to happen, during the past eight years.

What we're dealing with here is a cornered jackel in the person of Dick Cheney. If Obama talks too much about 'justice', Cheney might just nuke Iran. Obama has to be very careful what he says and does prior to taking the oath. Once he is in, then hopefully the investigations will begin. I'm just saying that Cheney is capable of ANYTHING. Taking out a major American city? Sure. Nuking Iran? You bet. Obama cannot be too careful in this tense period.

The photo on Salon's front page:`Who? A pawnbroker?

A Pro-whiskey drunkard. A Texan pig rancher. O worst.

I just had to ask as the tub fills Up-Up-chucks psychos.

How does one get a gangster-heinous ugly, Ugh spirit?

He ate Hostess Twinkletoes finger nail? No. O cupcake?

Poor excuse for a human pawn shop proprietor, o barf.

You ever see the photo in a Federal Facility? try Prison?

Fair trial for humanity. Decent lawyers converge minds.

The gaul. Send him to a jelly bean factory. Do ram-rod!

Muzzle the jokers. What will historians say:`A Folly Era.

I have a neighbor who did the same. I think of my sister as Torture Girl and my neighbor as Torture Boy. Bush was given the authority to torture of tens of millions of Americans, many of who, ironically, fondle crosses that represent the torturing of Jesus.

If there is to be an official probing, there should also be an unofficial probing of all the dark American hearts that voted for torture, that voted for Bush.