These pathetic Americans. These campaign workers are directly responsible for the last eight years of disaster. And they have no idea that they are responsible.

I know it's fashionable to say "have compassion. We are all americans together." Well, I call bullshit on that. The people Shapiro spent his evening with are pathetic in every way there is. Through their ignorance, or malice, or both, their deliberate know-nothingness, they have taken our country a long way toward ruin. It may take a decade or more to come out from under the multiple disasters caused by deregulation, and unchecked neocon delusion; the shredding of large parts of our constitution and the withering of Congressional power.

And they're worried about gay marriage. About "a white flag of surrender in Iraq." Phooey. We "lost" Iraq a long time ago, but these people are so profoundly deluded they cannot see that their own president has been lying to them for years.

It's time to call these people what they are: deluded extremists, who should have no place in our political discourse. Period. They've voted for people who've fucked up EVERYTHING they've ever touched. Everything. Why should anyone listen to anything these voters say, or think, or feel at this point? Why?

That whole "white flag of defeat" line just sounded so Vietnam-era to me. Defeat and victory are not viable concepts in the conflict we face today because our objective keeps changing and our enemy is an abstract noun. And the troops do not, contrary to some expectations, dissolve into pools of demoralized goo when our leaders discuss what is going on in realistic terms.

In so many ways, our leaders are re-fighting a long-ago war by proxy with the blood of younger generations.

I don't disagree with had_enough, but I do find it troublesome that some on the left still find ad hominem attacks--that is, personal insults, derision and inuendo--a valid style of political discourse! There are plenty of facts available for you to use to your offensive advantage; your use of emotion will require more defense than you may possess!

But more to the point: As was made plain by the civic event we all observed tonight, sometimes all it takes is stating the facts and offering solutions. Apologies to Mr. Shaprio, but sometimes boring is exactly what's called for!

Maybe our democracy's not supposed to be a half-scripted, self-referential, reality show? Maybe it's supposed to be about policy and governing?

That's a drag for those of you looking for the excitement of pro wrestling, but for those of us looking for a stronger, more beneficent United States, we'll take "boring and right" over "exciting and wrong" (props to Ms. Maddow).

Obama-Biden 08!

YES!

Biden should have turned that canned "There you go pointing backwards again" barb around by saying that he can well understand why, being Republicans, Palin and McCain would much prefer that everyone just ignore the last eight years and pretend they never happened.

Adding that one can hardly promise to bring "change", as Palin repeatedly said McCain would do, without establishing the status quo you are promising to change; though if they can get away with fooling enough of the people on that point, they may also get away with claiming that a continuation of (conveniently forgotten or ignored) Bush policy is "change."

Those who forget history are doomed ...

After the debate I would be happy with a Biden/Obama ticket. In the primary debates I always thought "who is this guy and how does he get only one percent of the vote?" He was spot on and very likeable to boot.. I cannot wait until Palin returns up here, don'tch ya know, to Alaska here, also. She has lost so much crede . Her reign will be severely diminished. You Betcha.

I think the whole debate was crystallized in a single question that Gwen asked both candidates toward the end of the debate.

She referred to each of their perceived Achilles' heels: Palin her inexperience and Biden his lack of discipline and then asked each one what they consider to be their actual Achilles' heels. Sort of a hokey, job interview type of question, I know, but one that could allow them to show their humanity.

Palin answered first and her answer to me indicated that she didn't understand the question. She blathered on about "gettin' things done, bein' a maverick", etc. Biden knew that she didn't understand or answer Gwen's question and slyly referred to that in the beginning of his answer, but didn't point that out directly, because of course that would be seen as a personal attack and belittling to Palin, which would play right into her hand.

As always, if you're actually paying attention, to the people, the policies and what's actually happening to our country, the choice is easy.

I had one call me in 2004, and I was able to fuck with their mind for several minutes, asking questions, letting them think they were seducing me over to their side, and ultimately confusing the hell out of them. I don't think it accomplished much. I know many Republicans who have fled the party for this election, realizing at last that the last eight years have taken them far astray from their beliefs. But there is always those hard core dead enders who long ago sealed their brains up in a hard candy shell, and nothing — NOTHING — will ever penetrate it or alter them from their belief in their own rightness.

I wish one of these kind would call me again this year. It was just too much fun the last time I got a call.

They bring in Plain Simple.

No worries- there's plenty of Kool Aid to go around..Didn't McCain already throw up the white flag in Mich?

OOps- guess that's Wisc- don't know sports- too busy sticking to the news- so there Joesephine six pack!!!!! PS- tome to trim the bangs!

I gather her "performance" improved later but it was too late for me. Robotic, Stepford, Mean Girl, inappropriately "lite" for the venue and the times -- all that -- but it wasn't her "answers" so much as her "presence" which was less that Reese Witherspoon character, but more glitteringly ambitious and over prepared Texas Cheerleader Mom ...

I wonder how many others simply changed the channel put off by the phoniness of her too-little-substance presence in this debate. Biden came off as genuine and knowledgeable, reassuringly "adult" going up against an ingenue.